I no longer have a 300 but am after advice for my 850!
What kind of distance do you expect (when checking for sparks at each plug) the spark to travel?
Does 3/4" sound okay? The mate who was with me said possibly a bit weak but would this cause complete lack of starting?
Cheers,
Simon
Checking for sparks
Nah, if its 3/4" then that's loads. About 1/2" to 2/3" gap when checking and plenty of nice strong blue sparks is what you're looking for.
I'm no expert on 850s but cam position sensors are apparently a favourite for a non start situation. Although the fact that there are sparks at all would indicate that the ECU is seeing some sort of signal.
Has the car been started from cold and driven a short distance and then stopped again?
I'm no expert on 850s but cam position sensors are apparently a favourite for a non start situation. Although the fact that there are sparks at all would indicate that the ECU is seeing some sort of signal.
Has the car been started from cold and driven a short distance and then stopped again?
Well I haven't driven it for a few weeks as I was planning to do some work on it!... replace top engine mount, rear pads, handbrake shoes, sort a few other issues out and stuff..
Before that I've driven it a few miles locally...
I put new plugs in, went to start it, it went to 500ish rpm, stalled, then didnt sound like was even trying to fire after that! I put the old ones back in and tried them as wasnt 100% sure volvo ones were gapped ok, and the same.
Tested for sparks yesterday, one slightly weaker than others, was going to have dissi off cos is some crap near it, but as had sparks didnt want to waste time doing that then. Fuel rail pressurising... it turns over, batt still okay, but just doesnt sound like its even nearly starting...
Si
Before that I've driven it a few miles locally...
I put new plugs in, went to start it, it went to 500ish rpm, stalled, then didnt sound like was even trying to fire after that! I put the old ones back in and tried them as wasnt 100% sure volvo ones were gapped ok, and the same.
Tested for sparks yesterday, one slightly weaker than others, was going to have dissi off cos is some crap near it, but as had sparks didnt want to waste time doing that then. Fuel rail pressurising... it turns over, batt still okay, but just doesnt sound like its even nearly starting...
Si
stll no starting
Just a little stressed, as meant to be going away next week with the car!
Checked to see cam is turning, and yes it is.
As I had just changed plugs, and threads dirty but not damaged, was some oil down the wells (one a reasonable bit!) as car previously had way (50%!) too much oil in it and pissed some out the top.
Would oil affecting seal around plugs likely to be a problem or not? I don't have the experience...
Simon
Checked to see cam is turning, and yes it is.
As I had just changed plugs, and threads dirty but not damaged, was some oil down the wells (one a reasonable bit!) as car previously had way (50%!) too much oil in it and pissed some out the top.
Would oil affecting seal around plugs likely to be a problem or not? I don't have the experience...
Simon
That was one thing I wondered, but we got sparks out of all of them, so I thought it'd be unlikely I broke most of them + had sparks when testing?
You can't get the wrong order as none will reach any further along the engine, luckily.
Still curious why the first time it did kinda start for a second or so then die, never to try properly again.
Maybe I should take the leads off the dissi and check resistance while I wiggle them a little to see if its damaged...
Simon
You can't get the wrong order as none will reach any further along the engine, luckily.
Still curious why the first time it did kinda start for a second or so then die, never to try properly again.
Maybe I should take the leads off the dissi and check resistance while I wiggle them a little to see if its damaged...
Simon
Sometimes if you start these cars from cold and then don't let them get warmed up, they flood themselves and the valves stick etc etc and basically they can be a complete pig to start again. If you're getting fuel pressure, and the sparks are sparking then that might be the only problem. Can you smell any fuel whilst you're trying to start it?
If it is the weird flooded thing then what to do apparently, is to pull the fuel pump fuse and pull all the plugs. Then crank the engine over with the plugs out for about 30 seconds, (don't worry you won't damage the starter cranking it for so long because there's no compression it won't have any resistance.) Once you've done that then put a teaspoon of engine oil down each bore to increase the compression, and briefly spin the engine over again. Then put the plugs back in, put the fuel pump fuse back etc etc and cross your fingers.
If it is the weird flooded thing then what to do apparently, is to pull the fuel pump fuse and pull all the plugs. Then crank the engine over with the plugs out for about 30 seconds, (don't worry you won't damage the starter cranking it for so long because there's no compression it won't have any resistance.) Once you've done that then put a teaspoon of engine oil down each bore to increase the compression, and briefly spin the engine over again. Then put the plugs back in, put the fuel pump fuse back etc etc and cross your fingers.
Our 850 had a problem before. It was started, moved on the drive and stopped very quickly, the engine only ran for a few seconds. After this it refused to start. We got the AA to come and they said the electronics had mucked up and it kept flooding or something. He took out the fuel pump fuse as Andy said, turned it over for a short while (can't remember how long), then put the fuse back in and it started and ran fine. He didn't take out the plugs.
All this computer gizmory these days
. Now we make sure that we never let it run for so short a time
All this computer gizmory these days
. Now we make sure that we never let it run for so short a time
-
foggyjames
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Beware of making the sparks jump too far - you can damage the coil.
Do the plugs smell of fuel? Are they wet? If so, try the flood-clearance technique MJ mentioned.
Check for fuel, check for spark, check for compression. If the car won't even tries to catch, there are relatively few things which can be worng.
cheers
James
Do the plugs smell of fuel? Are they wet? If so, try the flood-clearance technique MJ mentioned.
Check for fuel, check for spark, check for compression. If the car won't even tries to catch, there are relatively few things which can be worng.
cheers
James
VOC 300-series Register Keeper
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
hello
Ive got an 850 too so might be able to help
Ive heard of few people talking about non start after a cold start, short time then stop. The S70/V70 C70 does the same thing so whilst they have the same basic setup as the 850 ECU isnt the same. It was addressed on those with a sofware update but it is common as the excess fuel used for the cold start resides in the exhaust and if the car isnt warmed up fully, (after a short running time) it is then difficult to restart. reason is the oxy sensor sees a low oxygen concentration so leans back the map. in reality the engine needs the same richer mix to fire. waiting about 20mins, they are ok and usually fire.
Im not sure about the valve thing though Ive seen on a number of sites. need to do more reading on that since the tappets are hydraulic so low oil pressure means they dont open far enough (and make a clicking sound till they presurise and sort themselves out) so there is low compression due to the valve not letting enough air in (same effect as opening for less time). 15mins is the max for the tappets to sort themselves out. Mine has one noisey one which takes 3-5 mins to be quiet after a weekend of not being used. dont rev the car above 3000rpm before tappets are quiet is the advice from volvo. springs make them close and tappet adjusts the cam clearance for opening distance. so they wont jam open
The bosch and maybe the fenix system in the 400 series cuts the fuel supply after a certain amount of cranking so as to avoid flooding. I think the 850 Fenix and bosch would do the same thing
be careful doing the spark test on the 850. I recall the ECU doesnt appreciate such checks (not confirmed this with volvo but read it on another forum).... (850s have separate fuel and ignition ecus - got a bosch setup in mine. with an auto you end up with 3!)
maybe ask some of the chaps on the VOC 800 page?
good luck!!
Ive got an 850 too so might be able to help
Ive heard of few people talking about non start after a cold start, short time then stop. The S70/V70 C70 does the same thing so whilst they have the same basic setup as the 850 ECU isnt the same. It was addressed on those with a sofware update but it is common as the excess fuel used for the cold start resides in the exhaust and if the car isnt warmed up fully, (after a short running time) it is then difficult to restart. reason is the oxy sensor sees a low oxygen concentration so leans back the map. in reality the engine needs the same richer mix to fire. waiting about 20mins, they are ok and usually fire.
Im not sure about the valve thing though Ive seen on a number of sites. need to do more reading on that since the tappets are hydraulic so low oil pressure means they dont open far enough (and make a clicking sound till they presurise and sort themselves out) so there is low compression due to the valve not letting enough air in (same effect as opening for less time). 15mins is the max for the tappets to sort themselves out. Mine has one noisey one which takes 3-5 mins to be quiet after a weekend of not being used. dont rev the car above 3000rpm before tappets are quiet is the advice from volvo. springs make them close and tappet adjusts the cam clearance for opening distance. so they wont jam open
The bosch and maybe the fenix system in the 400 series cuts the fuel supply after a certain amount of cranking so as to avoid flooding. I think the 850 Fenix and bosch would do the same thing
be careful doing the spark test on the 850. I recall the ECU doesnt appreciate such checks (not confirmed this with volvo but read it on another forum).... (850s have separate fuel and ignition ecus - got a bosch setup in mine. with an auto you end up with 3!)
maybe ask some of the chaps on the VOC 800 page?
good luck!!
Enjoy your 300s
Thanks everyone!
Got it started, turned it over with plugs out for around 30seconds... (non fueling), then put all back together and kept it turning over with foot to floor on accelerator... after a while it then sounded like it was firing but almost like it was at the wrong time or something... but eventually it started, nice exhaust colour and nice fuel smell to go with it, kept it at fast idle for a min or two, and went for a drive!
Very much appreciated!
Simon
Got it started, turned it over with plugs out for around 30seconds... (non fueling), then put all back together and kept it turning over with foot to floor on accelerator... after a while it then sounded like it was firing but almost like it was at the wrong time or something... but eventually it started, nice exhaust colour and nice fuel smell to go with it, kept it at fast idle for a min or two, and went for a drive!
Very much appreciated!
Simon