ignition components and servicing

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Vart
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ignition components and servicing

Post by Vart » 30 May 2006 03:26 pm

what bits and pieces get sorted on a service.

i understand its,

plugs, leads, filter (oil and air) and oil change.

anything else?

also are 1.7 coils 1.4 compatable and might people on the 'bay call them 'electronic ignition units'?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLVO-340-1-7-ele ... dZViewItem

regards
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Chris_C
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Post by Chris_C » 30 May 2006 05:13 pm

As far as I know, the coils are interchangable, but what you have a picture of there is the Renix, which has the coil bolted onto it.

The renix's ARE NOT interchangeable (no matter how much scrappies or Volvo/Renault dealers try and make out they are) but if you are sure its the coil, get another renix and swap the coils over.

If you need a 1.4 renix, I'll have the engine stripped out of Kar soon, depends how soon you need it.
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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 30 May 2006 06:33 pm

hi there,

I notice that the different Renix units have different part numbers but if the coil is the same then what is the difference between them? Ive been puzzling this for a while... they are controllled by the plastic box on the left wing mounted next to the suspension turret.... so why do the base units differ and in what way???

cheers

Shimon
Enjoy your 300s

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Fuse
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Post by Fuse » 30 May 2006 06:46 pm

shimon340 wrote:hi there,

I notice that the different Renix units have different part numbers but if the coil is the same then what is the difference between them? Ive been puzzling this for a while... they are controllled by the plastic box on the left wing mounted next to the suspension turret.... so why do the base units differ and in what way???

cheers

Shimon
Plastic box on the left wing is a fuel cut out box for engines with Solex, it has nothing to do with Renix or ignition.

Renix boxes simply differ by ignition maps, they are mapped differently. Different part number Renix units have a different advance maps for igntion.
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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 30 May 2006 11:12 pm

hi there,

thanks for the info... so the box on the wing is for the fuel cut off... I guess this is 'overrun' cut off once the rpm is above 1700 but the throttle is closed ( im guessing the rpm here... ive got it in a green book somewhere ) Ive got it on my renix 340

Ive got a new renix here, I guess the circuitry and the part which is programmed with the igntion map is contained within the renix then....

cheers
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Chris_C
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Post by Chris_C » 31 May 2006 01:01 am

Yeah, map is contained within the renix itself, and they have sealed the entire lot up, resin I think, though it may have been spongey.

The maps do vary quite a lot, even between engine runs. Fake was running a pre '85 renix, which although didn't seem to be doing too much, was retarded 2degrees to the correct. Seemingly it pinks/detonates (not sure which is correct term for what would happen) past 3 degrees, so if something else was out...

And that was done by a Stealer looking through the reciepts and talking to Fakes previous owner (she only had one family before me) when they were trying to fix the idle.
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 31 May 2006 11:42 am

Hi

Ive got a renix here and yep there is resin type stuff on the back so i guess this seals the circuitry... stops it getting damp but doesnt relaly help with servicing! Doh!

What engine has fake got? there are two different renix units for the 1.7.... is that what they changed? you say the maps are different for each one? I'll check the part numbers and the years for you....

cheers

shimon
Enjoy your 300s

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mac
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Post by mac » 31 May 2006 12:56 pm

A subject to get yer teeth in !

The Renix (Bendix) electronic ignition system was used from the 1984 year model onwards replacing a conventional distributor (with contact points, mechanical advance etc.)

The Renix consists of an ECU and coil unit combined, a flywheel sensor, a toothed sensing ring built into the flywheel and a distributor which is a simple shaft turned by the camshaft with a rotor arm to distribute the spark to the dizzy cap contacts. The pic.below shows the main components.

Image

1 = Flywheel, 2 = flywheel sensor, 3 = distributor, 4 = ECU, 5 = engine vacuum sensor and 6 = coil.

The ECU has stored in an EPROM an optimum ignition setting for each combination of engine speed (from flywheel sensor) and engine load (from vacuum sensor) and will provide plug sparking as appropriate to driving conditions. This is known as mapped ignition. An example of an ignition map is shown below.
Image

The Renix unit looks like this,
Image

The 'works' of the ECU is sealed during manufacture and cannot be serviced, the EPROM cannot be re-programmed. ( over the years I have tried several times to find a way of disolving the sealant without harming the chips etc. - no luck so far).

The rear of the unit lloks like this,
Image

Under the resin it will look something like this (this shows a type D unit and Volvo 300's use type F but will be very similar),
Image

I will post this in stages - I don't want to crash and loose data part way through.

More soon.

Mac

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Post by mac » 31 May 2006 01:22 pm

Part 2.

The stored map differs from model to model and from year to year in some cases. The label on the ECU will give the code number that distinguishes the map. It is the 3 digit code in the second line of the label - not the larger 6 digit Renix part no.

Image

The code no's for various models Engine types) are listed below.

B14.3E = 401 (not in UK)
B14.4E = 402 (from 1985 has change up indicator)
B172K = 410
B19A = 404
B200K = 406 or 407 (from 1985 has change up indicator) (407 has speed limiter.)
B200E = 405 or 408 (408 has engine speed limiter)
B14.4E = 412 (1987ish on) Retarded by 4 deg. to run on unleaded.

As far as servicing goes the distributor cap and rotor arm should be inspected and cleaned/replaced as with any car. In fact a very common cause of poor running/backfiring is failure of the rotor arm on B172K engines. Often replacing the rotor will transform the running of the car.

Another fairly common problem is a build up of corrosion on the coil connections. The coil can be removed (2x T20 torx machine screws) ans the blade contacts in the ECU and the pins on the coil can be carefully cleaned.

Image

note the unit may or may not have a suppression capacitor fitted.

Image

Image

Here endeth part 2.

Mac

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Post by SteveP » 31 May 2006 01:52 pm

mac wrote: B200E = 405 or 408 (408 has engine speed limiter)
Now that is intersting, cos I'm pretty sure my 360 doesn't have a rev limiter but alot of people have their cut at 6250rpm! Mac, you have some damn impressive 300 info!
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mac
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Post by mac » 31 May 2006 02:23 pm

Thanks Steve. Being a volvo 'anorak' keeps me insane !!

Mac

(I'm in process of preparing part 3 - testing the Renix.)

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Renix part 3.

Post by mac » 31 May 2006 03:05 pm

Basic fault finding and testing.

Non starting can be caused by many problems but the Renix system is generally reliable (strange for French electrics). Obviously check the usual culprits - plugs, dizzy cap, rotor, fuel etc.

If you suspect the ignition a number of simple checks should give you a guilty or not guilty verdict.

1. Check that all HT leads are secure, and that the plugs in the top of the Renix are secure. etc. There will be 2 and possibly 3 plugs, A - a 3 pin plug on the top right. B - a 2 pin plug in the center and C - a 3 pin (but with 1,2,or 3 wires) on the top left.

Image

In plug A terminal 1 provides a speed signal for the Rev Counter, the Tachometric relay (in CVT cars) and for the over-run fuel shut off system if fitted (1986 0n).
Terminal 2 is to ground (earth)
Terminal 3 provides a 12v+ supply from the ignition switch (via the fuse box but not a fuse and the ignition relay).

Plug B has two wires and connects to the flywheel sensor (on the bellhousing).

Plug C normally is not fitted on UK cars but terminal 8 gives a signal to the gear change indicator (1985 only I think).

However - one tip - If you run an 84,85,or 86 year car with a Type 402 Renix and suffer pinking on unleaded fuel you can retard the ignition timing by 4 degrees by earthing terminal 7.

The first check is to ensure you have power to the ECU, Disconnect plug A
(and testing THE PLUG not the ECU) and with a test lamp or multimeter connect between terminal 3 and earth.
Ignition on and cranking the starter should give at least 9.5volts. (best to use a meter to measure this) Even with no faults you will not get 12v as the current draw by the starter motor will bring the voltage down.

If you do not have 12v - find out why.

Ensure that you have a good earth on terminal 2 of the plug (multimeter should give 0 ohms(no resistance) NOT infinity. (even auto electricians make that mistake).

To be continued).

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Renix testing continues

Post by mac » 31 May 2006 03:25 pm

Asuming that the power ans earths for the ECU are ok, the next thing is to check the flywheel sensor. Disconnect plug B from the ECU and using a multimeter measure the resistance across the plug terminal. Anything other than 220 ohms with a variance of 60 (160 - 280 ohns) condems the sensor.
(it is worth when removing the sensor (x2 bolts/nut) from the bellhousing, checking for magnetic debris on the end).

Remove the coil (2x T20 torx screws) and measure the resistance between the coil contact blades. There should be no resistance (0 ohms).

Image

Next refit plugs A and B and connect a test lamp of at least 4w across the coil blades.

Image

Cranking the engine should cause the test lamp to flash (indicating that the coil is being powered).

Turning our attention to the coil iself, firstly measure the coil primary windings resistance - should be 0,4 - 0,8 ohms.

Image

To be continued.

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last part

Post by mac » 31 May 2006 03:49 pm

Next measure the coil secondary windings. This measurement should be between 2500 and 5500 ohms.

Image


Any values outside the given ranges condems the coil.

A final check (asuming the engine now runs) is to ensure that the vacuum sensor on the ECU is working. Disconnect the vacuum pipe from the Renix and run the engine at about 2400 - 2600 rpm, re-fit the vac.pipe and enging revs should rise indicating that iignition advance is taking place. If you suspect a fault with the vac.sensor DO NOT attempt to remove it (yes I know there are 2 screws on the back of the Renix) it is connected to the ECU electronics by two fine wires with no slack and you won't be able to replace it ( at least I never have - and I've tried).

I think that about covers all you can do sevice wise - I if anyone thinks I've left anything out or got anything wrong please shout !!

Sorry I split this post into bit but we are suffering random power cut here in deepest rural Suffolk and I didn't want to loose it all about 2 seconds before posting.

All the best everyone, Mac.

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Post by 990 » 31 May 2006 08:16 pm

Damn Mac this info is great - (now to put it into book form :wink: )

Good News too Econ Guage works :D - Steve so does the speedo (looks like I did 30k in 30 minutes :shock: 90k to 119k :D )
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