She wont start!!!

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SteveP
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by SteveP » 04 Nov 2009 10:16 am

With my two previous GLT's the pump's just on when you start the engine.
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux

Con2K
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Con2K » 04 Nov 2009 11:06 am

OK, chekced the fuse - it was fine (8ampbtw - same as the fogs) swapped it anyway even though it wa a new one just incase.

I removed the inline filter by the tank last night, emptied that out and it had thick black stuff in it. So the one down there gets the worst, and the one in the engine bay gets the finer stuff I assume. I blew through the line and cleared out sum more crap that was clogged up in it. It was seriously thick black crud!

I then bench tested the fuel pump by sending a feed to it from the battery and heard it spin (its v.quiet so I’m not surprised I cant hear it prime when I turn the key in the ignition) and the remains of fuel in it sprayed under good pressure. I’ve not removed the return feed to the tank as I would expect that to be clean as its already passed through 2 filters before heading back. (also because I cant be arsed cuz its cold and raining every night).

I only get about an hour a night on this after work. I was going to ignore the replacement filter for under the car and run a straight pipe but after seeing the shite in it I think its best to have one and save the larger foreign matter from going through the line under the car to get stuck sumwhere more difficult.

I will replace the rubber lines between the tank and the fuel pump and refit it all tonight, test it for pressure by turning the car over and watching for it where the large engine bay filter should be. Hopefully that should be it. If not I'm out of ideas.

I can only assume its another problem unrelated to basic spark and fuel that I dotn have the time/patiance to sort out myself.

Con2K
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Con2K » 04 Nov 2009 07:16 pm

Right, took the filter into Halfords and they said they dont have one like that. Brought up the big metal one from the engine bay and said thats all they have. They're lying! I remember when I went in the 1st weekend I had the car and asked for a price of loads of parts and the fuel filter they brought out was the illusive small plastic one. I said no not knowing it was needed and back in the box it went.

I've given them engine numbers, reg plates of 2.0 carb and injection, even opened every single fuel filter box on the shelf and nothing comes close. Nothing even has the same width pipe coming off it to retro fit. Went to Mill Autoquip (local 'decent' motor factors with afew branches) and the helpful girl wasnt there, just a bloke who said (without looking, or pretending to look) thats an aftermarket one sum1 fitted, we dont stock anything like that.

IT SAYS VOLVO ON THE DAMN THING! and a part number! 202711

Oh speaking of Volvo, my local main dealer (taunton) say its obsolete and they cant get one.

Now back to the point, I've been told to bypass it and run sum new hosing but I am reluctant, the crap that came out of it could have worked its way further which I dont want and these cold rainy nights mean once I put the thing back together again I really dont want to be taking it apart again.

The search continues...

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Ronnie
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Ronnie » 04 Nov 2009 08:29 pm

Sorry your problem didn't have the easy fix we were all banging on about.

Did you have a look at fuel filters for the 940? Should still be parts available. Even if it's different I'm sure it could be adapted with liberal application of jubilee clips and the like.
'85 360GLT Mk2 3 Door B19E - SOLD
'94 L400 Mitsubishi Delica LWB

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Ride_on
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Ride_on » 04 Nov 2009 09:04 pm

volvodspec wrote:i can't recall that, what's the point of running for a few seconds when turning ignition on?

sure you get fuel pressurized on the injector rail instantly but the Renix unit is switched on when engine is turning so building up pressure on the rail before that is pointless, empty hose + filter + rail is filled completely in 2 sec, same time it takes the renix to start working.
Thats very odd, my 360s always started on the button nearly, 2s is years to wait. I've had 84 and 87 GLTs, the rest carbs. Now my 940 is slow to start and I cannot hear the pump running in it, but its harder to hear as its in the plastic tank under fuel, but I could guess that more modern cars do not pressurise the rail on the key.

Incidently the 940 main filter looks similar to the 360 one but I think the unions are smaller, went to check but I've thrown out the old 940 one I replaced recently. Got it from Halford and the original was full of black crap, hadn't changed it in 8 years since I got the car.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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trabitom99
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by trabitom99 » 04 Nov 2009 09:34 pm

Con2K wrote:IT SAYS VOLVO ON THE DAMN THING! and a part number! 202711

Oh speaking of Volvo, my local main dealer (taunton) say its obsolete and they cant get one.
You mean 3202711? Bummer, they were available two years ago ... Mind you it should be possible to find a universal replacement. Try Quinton Hazell WF8127. Costs around 2 Euros here.

EDIT: they ARE still available as of April 2010

Cheers

Tom
Last edited by trabitom99 on 15 Apr 2010 01:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 230000kms 1988

Con2K
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Con2K » 04 Nov 2009 09:55 pm

I can post up a pic of the filter I'm after. When I 1st got it, it started everytime 1st time. Only done 977 miles in it since I got it (reset the trip) and it's been trouble free until now.

I will head back to volvo and see what I can find from them. I'm more annoyed that the ppl I talk to at Mill/Halfords dont seem to have any idea when I 110% remember seeing the filter and saying 'no, its a big metal one I need' Even my girlfriend remembers it so I'm definately not going mad. But they have no idea what I'm going on about now. May pay to visit another branch of Halfords.

As for hearing the fuel pumps, I can here the one on my Mk4 Fiesta (1996) and thats submerged. Can hear it prime and make aload of noise. The volvo one is silent and used to start stright away trouble free.

pettaw
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by pettaw » 05 Nov 2009 11:47 am

Sounds as though you've sucked up some dirt through the fuel pipe and its blocked everything. Blowing everything out sounds like a good idea and you're on the right track. Definitely don't bypass that filter close to the tank. Tbh any good motor factors should be able to get one for you. Buy at least two of them, because any junk you can't get out of the lines will speedily clog the new filter, and you'll need to be ready to change them again.

Once you get that sorted, make sure that the fuel pump is pumping the correct way round. Its possible to wire it backwards so its running fine, but sucking fuel rather than blowing it. Easiest way to check is to wire it all up, and then disconnect the feed to the main metal fuel filter in the engine bay. Then take the fuel pump relay out, and jumper terminals 30 and 87b. You'll hear the fuel pump run and a second or two later you should get a strong squirt of fuel through the hose. If you get nothing then you'll need to swap the wires over on the pump.

You shouldn't hear the fuel pump priming with the ignition on. You'll only hear the fuel pump running once you try to start it so don't be fooled into thinking 'I can't hear it priming, it must be faulty'

Con2K
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Con2K » 08 Nov 2009 05:01 pm

OK, another update - changed most of the related/unrealted fuses in the car, removed the fuel pump and tested it off the car with a 12v current from the battery and it worked fine.

Refitted it to the car, left the fuel line off it but connected to the tank, turned the car over and nothing came out. So going to get a multimeter and test the wiring to the fuel pump.

If it doesnt work there, i think I found the wiring for it under the seat so can test there, and failing that, back up at the engine bay/ignition. if all is working fine then I asusme its the fuel pump - but why would it work fine away from that wiring with a direct 12v feed?

Will probs do it tomoz. Now the missus has my car again means I'm walking home from work! fail.

so the sooner the better then...

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trabitom99
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by trabitom99 » 14 Nov 2009 08:14 pm

You've probably checked this already, but I thought I'd mention it anyway ...

I was following this thread closely, as my GLT refused to start last week. I'd changed the battery, and after that it moved a metre or so before cutting out. Luckily, before I started removing fuel pumps etc. I spotted this pic in FJ's thread:
filthyjohn wrote:They connect to this relay which is mounted to the little stell bracket which supports the airflow meter:
Image
pettaw wrote:That relay is more than just the fuel pump. It works the entire LE-Jet system, powering the injectors, ECU, TPS etc as well as the fuel pump.
As I was changing the battery I'd knocked the relay loose :oops:

Cheers

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 230000kms 1988

Con2K
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Con2K » 15 Nov 2009 12:17 am

Tom! I'll try it first thing tomoz and see how we are looking! I hope its sumthing as simple as that!

These dark/cold/heavy raining nights havent given me much drive to do it so will have a go tomoz.

Thanks for the post. THought people had forgotten about it!

pettaw
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by pettaw » 15 Nov 2009 05:09 pm

OK so you got no fuel pressure. Did you connect it up the correct way round? Please do check. Its incredibly easy to connect it the wrong way round and it whirrs and makes all the right noises, but its sucking not blowing. If its whirring but not pumping, then try reconnecting the electrical connections the other way round and try again.

Con2K
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Re: She wont start!!! - Sorted

Post by Con2K » 16 Nov 2009 03:52 pm

Finally some progress!

As tom mentioend - i checked the relay. gave it a wiggle and seemed loose. Have never touched it but maybe a bump in the road unsettled it. plug it in and the fuel pump now makes a noise!!!!! (prior to this I had neverheard it when I started the car and until I removed it and tested it off a battery I didnt know if it was working (it was thankfully).

Connected it to the tank and left the other end off, made a noise but no fuel, swapped the wires over and away she goes. Put the car back toghether again and everythings fine now. My only problem is I left the lights opn last night cuz there was no 'PLING' sound and didnt realise! FAIL!

Thanks v.v.v.much to all who gave me advice. I know it seems like a retarded mistake but when I'm not firmiliar with these cars i'll accept the flak!

At the very least i've renewed all spark and fuel items aswell as cleaning the lines so I suppose it cant be bad to have a kick up the arse once in awhile if it results in a well serviced car haha!!

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Ronnie
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by Ronnie » 16 Nov 2009 04:25 pm

My car had this same fault a month or so ago after standing for a couple of weeks - WD40 squirted onto the contacts sorted it. Sorry I hadn't connected that to your problem :oops:
'85 360GLT Mk2 3 Door B19E - SOLD
'94 L400 Mitsubishi Delica LWB

http://www.filterfeeder.eu

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trabitom99
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Re: She wont start!!!

Post by trabitom99 » 16 Nov 2009 04:29 pm

Hey cool. Glad you got your car going again! Having spent the last few days with niggling faults on my 300s I now know how great it is when they work again ;-)

Cheers

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 230000kms 1988

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