Turbo 360: More potential shell ruining lol

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L14MNP
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Re: B230FK 360: Chitty chitty bang bang :/

Post by L14MNP » 10 Sep 2010 10:12 am

Will give you a shout if I'm doing anything to it solo Ben. I think I'm working tomorrow morning though :/ 340pw
Ride_on wrote:You might be better on volvoforums.org, its just a standard 940 LPT Turbo. Hey I thought it was the FT you had put in, you will be well impressed with 11psi then!

Anyway, its not a common problem with these engines so there will not be a flood of responses knowing exactly what the problem is. Just follow your best problem solving instincts..which you seem to be doing..check everything.

From your description it sounds most like a weak spark to me. Are your leads leaking onto the cramped chassis or something? Look at it in complete darkness once you eyes have gotten used to the dark. I would say to remove the disty cap and check it for oil, but can you do that without lifting the engine or vent box? Might be better to go for the relocate now.

The ODB is not EODB or ODB2, best to make up a flashy reader (as standard in the 95 940);

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=103378
Ah, I think I am registered on volvoforums.org. It's standard, but hopefully not for long. The FT/Fk thing is a funny one. It was advertised as an FT but I seen it was the FK when I arrived to collect. I forgot when typing it I guess. It's 100% a puny 130 odd bhp @ 4psi though lol. As we know though, the only difference between the FT and Fk is the airbox (more open intakes) and the actuator. I have an FFT actuator here with the stronger spring, but there's little point fitting it when a bleed valve/MBC will negate that need.

I was impressed at first with the 4psi too, considering I have a restrictive exhaust and I'm always watching for the louvre blowing off lol. Without those two factors it would have been a touch quicker too.
11/12 psi is really going to change it. I could see a 300 being on the verge of 'fast' with that much boost.

The HT leads aren't touching the chassis. It isn't cramped in the bay in that regard. As for the dizzy, it is a heater box out job (it's still out from when I done the cap/rotor etc). Hopefully I can fit the uprated pump this weekend if the banjo arrives. Then if the problem is still there it's time for a compression test and I dunno, maybe a trip to a local garage with the list of what I have replaced and see what they reckon. :/

As for the OBD, I said to my mate with the tester that it wasn't OBD2 but he insisted it was and when the plug fit I agreed. It's good to know it isn't and that a tester can be made (cheers for the link).
I thought if it didn't have the flasher reader and did have the plug in the centre armrest then it was 100% OBD2. You learn something new everyday!
There is no real reason the plug shouldn't still work, as all I cut from it was stuff like SRS, seat heat etc iirc. We were only aware of OBD1 where you flash the codes from the engine bay and the standard OBD2.

Cheers, Liam.
STREETO WITHDRAWL
INTO BURNOUTSsince1982

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L14MNP
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Re: B230FK 360: Chitty chitty bang bang :/

Post by L14MNP » 10 Sep 2010 01:20 pm

Right. Found my pics.

I'll start with the oil return carry on! i think the last post I made about that was when I had fitted the (wrong) OEM gasket Volvo supplied me. I should have cut the Cornflakes box up in hindsight...

Needless to say, it failed after barely any time. So I ordered the correct TD04 gasket from eBay and fitted that. This time, the problem returned (har har) with a vengeance! Not before I acquired two further issues though lol.
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The car wouldn't start in the morning after work. I flattened the battery trying. It would almost fire and then give up. FJ came to my rescue and we got the car away on his battery (we still need to swap back lol).
When running, the car was raining oil from the subframe. Great(!). I limped home complete with lots of smoke. I mean it was billowing from the grille and coming in through the vents when I stopped. I was considering not driving it TBH.

The oil leak/smoke issue was discovered:
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When reassembling the car I had routed the silcone pipe in a difefrent way and it had moved and was sitting against the turbo!

Then it failed again! This time it came out of the sump. It needs threaded fittings to be fair. A trip to B&Q for some flexible copper tube and one Ronnie later and I have a (so far!)
reliable oil return. The Volvo O ring was blown out of the sump so it now has a Samco one. I am reluctant to fit the proper one as the bodge is quite happy atm! Plus they're over a fiver each and I'm on my second. lol

The non-start issue seemed to be down to this nice little mess:
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The crank position sensor and wiring loom had melted against the EGR pipe. I guess I never tied it back up when doing some previous work, plus I thought there's nothing hot down there anyway lol. I plan to shorten the loom at some point.

The loom was repaired, it was only 3 wires that had been damaged (stuck to each other). I also repaired the CPS, it was just the outer sheath and aluminium shielding that had bought it. So out with the tin foil and insulation tape. All seemed well...
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I also investigated why oil was being pushed past the oil filler cap. I replaced the cap with the one from the B19 and it was still the same, so I pulled off the breathers/PCV/oil trap and cleaned out/replaced them.
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Nice.
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Replaced this.

That sorted the weird oil issue concerning the cap then.

At the same time I also binned the EGR.
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I am still unsure whether or not this has upset the car (current problems) but it ran fine for at least one day with it blanked off.

The FMIC was also fitted before all that ^ TBH.I wanted it in the grille space but wasn't sure how. Ronnies mounting ideas FTW.
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Something wasn't quite right here, it didn't look like I imagined. Too much like mesh from a short distance too! lol
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How it ended up, had to be lowered to allow the boost pipes and headlights to fit at the same time. lol it actually looks good the way it is now. A few people weren't sold on it at first but most seem to agree now.
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Then I think the 'misfire' started so it was time to buy a few things:

plugs
leads
rotor arm
distributor cap

Check the old cap!
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Can you say worn?!

The problem still persisted, so other things were looked at/replaced:

Like I said, I initially thought it was running on 3 pots, but having tested it I now know all 4 are working fine. as well as testing for a strong spark and testing the coil, I have tested the TPS and the AMM (also cleaned the hotwires). All are well. The injectors seem fine, and no leaks from inlet or IC piping.


CPS (due to it previously melting on the EGR pipe. I repaired it but thought maybe it wasn't sufficient.) Also, 3 of the wires from the loom were damaged, but re-soldered. I'm not sure what they do as I never traced them back.)
EZK module/ignition amplifier (due to a previous need)
oxygen sensor, gen Bosch.
FPR

The replaced parts are between 50-800 miles old, so should be fine.

Still it persists! The timing marks line up too. I am awaiting a banjo fitting so i can install the uprated fuel pump, to at least rule out the GLT one not working correctly, although it sounds as it did before and it seems to flow just as much if you remove the feed from the rail. After that I guess it will be a compression check (even though it idles and drives ok on very partial throttle) Except for sometimes the revs hunting and climbing high when on idle.
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I bought this Forge twin piston BOV nice and cheap. I would like to see if i can plumb it in so it recirculates. I do like that noise lol, plus I hear it aids throttle reponse, and dumping a little metred air can giev pops/bangs and the occasional flame. lol
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The timing belt was sold to me as a sqaure tooth type. Fcuking eBay!


i think that's it! :roll: :lol:
Cheers as always to all who have helped.
STREETO WITHDRAWL
INTO BURNOUTSsince1982

Ride_on
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Re: B230FK 360: Update 10/09

Post by Ride_on » 11 Sep 2010 03:03 pm

The 940 engine should be round type cam belt, its different to the 360.

Old disty looks pretty oily, but may not be responsible for the misfire. The GLT pump flow should be fine for starting and tickover, I can only think now that it is an electrical problem, perhaps with the loom or just chassis/engine grounding.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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L14MNP
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Re: B230FK 360: Update 10/09

Post by L14MNP » 12 Sep 2010 12:37 pm

The GLT pump did work fine, no complaints even at WOT in the higher gears.

I cured the problem yesterday, for all of 5 miles. I fitted the new pump and all was well, then the stutter returned, ending in the fuel hose splitting! :/ My mate rescued me with a stanley knife and screwdriver, II cut it short and reattached, made it home and FJ brought me some more hose. We fitted it up and it was OK - for about 30 seconds. Very odd. The 'miss' is still there but not as obvious/rough as before.

I'm 90% confident the problem lies with fuel delivery. The issue seems to be with the fuel hose itself. The stuff I have on ATM has like an insert inside of it which appears to be collapsing, or the outer just splits. You can actually tear the outer by hand! It's from eBay :roll: it seemed fine when it arrived, but appears to go soft in very little time. I am going to pull it all out and replace it with decent stuff and then see where I am.

I'm also going to pull the loom off the engine and go right over it this week. I may shortern it at the same time.

Cheers.
STREETO WITHDRAWL
INTO BURNOUTSsince1982

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340GLT
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Re: B230FK 360 update: Fixed...then not! lol

Post by 340GLT » 12 Sep 2010 07:43 pm

When you bought the fuel hose mate did you just buy 8mm fuel hose? Or did you specify high pressure. If you didn't my guess is the hose cannot support the higher pressure.
Adam
F559 LFE - 340R 2.0 16v
C208 CTR - 340 1.8 16v
D300 LBO - 360 GLT 3 Door Turbo project!! (and restoration)
F706 RBX - 350R in process!!!

Ride_on
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Re: B230FK 360 update: Fixed...then not! lol

Post by Ride_on » 14 Sep 2010 03:21 pm

340GLT wrote:When you bought the fuel hose mate did you just buy 8mm fuel hose? Or did you specify high pressure. If you didn't my guess is the hose cannot support the higher pressure.
Adam
Yes or fuel injection specific pipe.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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Re: B230FK 360 update: Fixed...then not! lol

Post by volvosneverdie » 14 Sep 2010 03:43 pm

changing all the pipes might be a pita, but if that cures the probs then this is all awesome news.
Image

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L14MNP
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Re: B230FK 360 update: Fixed...then not! lol

Post by L14MNP » 14 Sep 2010 07:49 pm

Ordered some Sytec high pressure stuff and a few other things today. So I will replace what it currently on the car.

The current stuff was supplied as 8mm I.D high pressure fuel injection hose though, however it's just crap. I have emailed the seller to see if I get any joy with a potential refund.
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L14MNP
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Re: B230FK 360 update: Fixed...then not! lol

Post by L14MNP » 08 Oct 2010 11:43 am

Fuel lines replaced, return now runs into tank and it still bogs down and dies on me.

Injectors tested off the car on my DIY rig :lol: They seem to all be atomozing the fuel and there's not even 5% difference in the volumes they're spraying. I will still have them cleaned though.

it's broke down on me numerous times of late, I think it's got some debris floating around the fuel system somewhere as now it doesn't do the constant 'misfire' but instead it will drive fine (except for WOT in 4th/5th where it feels restricted, but sometimes you can drive through it) then it will just lose power and bog down, revs/gear aren't important. I can sometimes pump the acc and 'suck' it through, well that's what it feels like. othertimes it will have none of it and will cut out and not start again for 5-10 mins.

I need to pressure test the rail. I think it's cost me my job though with being so unreliable of late TBH so it's in the garage for now and probably won't see the road again until next summer. Which is OK, it has 4 bald tyres and it needs tidying up and a fresh look anywayy IMO.

I have a new daily/winter beater to get me around and it means any work on the Volvo won't have to be so rushed now, sports seats, bit of a factory body kit, alloys/low pro's, wheels right at the corners, handles like a go-kart and does 45mpg all out the box for <£500

Wanna guess what it is? :lol:
STREETO WITHDRAWL
INTO BURNOUTSsince1982

Ride_on
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Re: Lolvo? I aint laughing (lol)

Post by Ride_on » 08 Oct 2010 12:13 pm

Air being sucked into top syphoning tank? Does it happen any more if the tank is less full? Also what about the low pressure side collapsing under sucking pressure. The GLT has a 10mm ID hose on the input and a large fuel filter (between tank and pump) which I guess might also help buffer the fuel.

A fuel pressure test is a good start, but it won't indicate any problems if its caused by fuel sloshing around (which could also cause the collapsing pipe).

I havn't looked inside the carb tank, but the injection tank has baffles around the bottom outlet.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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L14MNP
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Re: Lolvo? I aint laughing (lol)

Post by L14MNP » 08 Oct 2010 12:25 pm

Ride_on wrote:Air being sucked into top syphoning tank? Does it happen any more if the tank is less full? Also what about the low pressure side collapsing under sucking pressure. The GLT has a 10mm ID hose on the input and a large fuel filter (between tank and pump) which I guess might also help buffer the fuel.

A fuel pressure test is a good start, but it won't indicate any problems if its caused by fuel sloshing around (which could also cause the collapsing pipe).

I havn't looked inside the carb tank, but the injection tank has baffles around the bottom outlet.

Fuel level makes no difference mate.. Nothing I have fitted is collapsing as it is all high pressure pipe. I don't see the need for the 10mm pipe as the rest is 8mm ID anyway. i have an intank filter and inline one just before the rail ATM. I'm unsure if the carb tank is baffled, but I think the tank is half the problem here. I am going to grab an injection tank from FJ and fit that when I do some underside restoration/tarting up.

it's a puzzle as when 'bodged' the first time around with the return T'd back into the feed the car ran fine for weeks, then all this crap started. I had my 4psi (lol) back the other day and subsequently hammered a 57 plate A4 TDi that assumed he could beat me as his lane was closing. :D it can be fun.

Forgot to say, when I whipped the plugs out after it broke down on me the other week, one was verrrry lean, which lead to suspecting the injector wasn't firing well/at all. As I have read they can idle fine with only 3 working.

Alas, my tank has to be full of sh!t. When adapting the fuel sender to take the return, I cut about 5mm from the end of the pickup pipe and before I did I blew it through with the compressor and it was like dusty/solidified fuel being forced out. Can't be good.



I haven't been on here for a bit, but all of that was done over the last 2-3 weeks but as said, it's not my daily driver now so hopefully i can get it tidied up/niggles sorted and looking more how I would like.


How's yours coming along?
Cheers dude.
STREETO WITHDRAWL
INTO BURNOUTSsince1982

volvosneverdie
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Re: Lolvo? I aint laughing (lol)

Post by volvosneverdie » 08 Oct 2010 02:16 pm

Seriously gutted that this and everything else seems to be going to sh!te atm for you man.

Pint?
Image

Ride_on
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Re: Lolvo? I aint laughing (lol)

Post by Ride_on » 08 Oct 2010 05:09 pm

Still welding, just uncovered more rust in the rear cross beam. Have now upgraded to air system with tank(s) so I can do sandblasting, undersealing/waxing and air tools , should be fun!. Still progressing anyway, have done alot (too much really) working most evenings on it.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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mrsoundcraft
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Re: Lolvo? I aint laughing (lol)

Post by mrsoundcraft » 12 Oct 2010 10:59 pm

Im in no way an expert but are you in need of a swirl pot? or is it just the dirt.

I remeber a thing in PPC about cleaning up the inside of a petrol tank by filling it with stones and shaking it a lot to clean off all the dirt.

Hope you get to the bottom of the running issues, we need more cars out there like yours just to turn Mr "SC58 YSK", or equivelents world upside down.

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L14MNP
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Re: Lolvo? I aint laughing (lol)

Post by L14MNP » 14 Oct 2010 03:02 pm

It occured to me that I haven't took any pics of the car as it now stands. Nothing has really changed cosmetically except for the addition of the FMIC and an uprated back box.

I gave it a clean for the first time in a couple of months yesterday, due to the Metro Centre/Retro Rides meet and for said pics. So here's a few of it's current face. I think this is basically the last time it will be on the road this year. A new look is planned for when the good weather rolls around once more, along with more power and a mini resotration.

Have a few crap camera phone pics:

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Including new plates.. lol. Damn jetwash brush (over a year ago)
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Anyone for fcuked springs?
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Can't wait to get the deeper/wider/lower ET rims on - and some tyres with tread that are the correct size lol.
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Loweringness is required and is on the above list.
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Told you they were crap!
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Throw in a cambered surface and you get the seen-better-days leaf springs in full effect lol.

The exhaust is a Magnex, some random thing I got off eBay for a tenner. Ron and I cut it about so it fit the car and the gay in me wanted it to exit at an angle so made things more awkward lol(thanks again mate). It needs to sit higher, but I am not going to cut the valance when I will be replacing the back box for something more suitable anyway. The inlet is only 2" and we made a new 2/38" system from the turbo to the back box, so I need a larger bore job. That OEM thing looked crap though so this is an improvement and has a nice sound to it. lol

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Borrowed this (oil pressure) gauge from a mate. T'd into the feed to the fuel rail. This is the rail pressurised, igntion off.
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Engine running and full fuel pressure available.

When the car stumbles etc due to a pressure drop it reads between 0.5-around 2.5bar.

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The dash in on the back seat. :roll:

Cheers again for all the info/help lads. I will be replacing the fuel tank for an injection unit before the car is next used, and all of the vac pipes etc. I am looking into the swirl pot/filter combo that you can get and think I will probably try that.

When it's next out to play I should have a 740 turbo clutch and more b000st. :) It's all worth it in the end....


Liam.
STREETO WITHDRAWL
INTO BURNOUTSsince1982

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