360 turbo saloon tidy up

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Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 22 Aug 2014 02:09 am

Well I'm over most of the welding and body on my project car, its now at the sprayers, so having been relegated to the bodywork section I am starting a new thread in the project cars section.

This is my 360 GLE saloon I bought for £1000 in 1993. I brought it up to 200,000 miles on the clock and put it in the garage for some boot area rust, bought some new panels from Volvo and spot welded them in. I had a great time in this car and it served me well, never breaking down and always enjoyable to drive. I thought it deserved to live and began sorting out sills and other rust. Unfortunately water in the garage exaserbated the rust and I was rather busy working leaving it for the odd year, and it needed more intense work. Eventually I moved it to my house a few years ago and began working to the degree needed to finish it in a reasonable time. At the same time my sister was getting rid of a good 940 Turbo and I was told on here that it would be rude not to use the engine. So last week I have extracted said engine and began cleaning and transfering 360 parts over.
IMG_3560s.JPG
Engine out
IMG_3560s.JPG (106.79 KiB) Viewed 7627 times
IMG_3565s.JPG
bit of head work needed, plug only screwed in 5mm
IMG_3565s.JPG (93.11 KiB) Viewed 7627 times
IMG_3569s.JPG
Used the tap to clean the good threads, then the bolt to straighten the bent ones.
IMG_3569s.JPG (99.27 KiB) Viewed 7627 times
IMG_3579.JPG
Painted all nice
IMG_3579.JPG (83.97 KiB) Viewed 7627 times
IMG_3582s.JPG
Flywheel and clutch same as 228mm clutch
IMG_3582s.JPG (91.86 KiB) Viewed 7627 times
I got a solid 940 flywheel and clutch, its 228mm type, but comparing with the 360 parts, they are the same except for the friction plate. The 360 has a 228mm clutch with a 215mm plate, WTF. It simply leaves a load of space unused on the flywheel face, it even says type:M228 on the pressure plate. So how do I get a 228mm clutch with a 360 drive?

The edge of the flywheel is a bit square compared to the 360, will this need turned down to fit the clutch housing? I can't get at the flywheel end at the moment as its in an engine stand and the 360 engine is in the crane.

I've also noticed the (360) pilot bearing does not fit the 360 drive shaft, does it only just touch it or does it need rammed in? I did move the driveshaft in the torque tube, does it need to be precisely located? Would seem to be a strange design.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Number 47
Posts: 199
Joined: 28 Jul 2013 07:11 pm

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Number 47 » 24 Aug 2014 11:43 am

Looking forward to watching your work on this Ride on. Am I right in thinking that is the b230ft? If so, have you any use for a set of b230et pistons?

Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 25 Aug 2014 11:46 am

I would not know one piston from another, but I'm happy enough with the ones I have, thanks anyway. I'm not doing a bottom end rebuild, engine was pretty tight before laying up. Almost no step in the wall. I think its had 160k easy miles.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Number 47
Posts: 199
Joined: 28 Jul 2013 07:11 pm

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Number 47 » 25 Aug 2014 12:05 pm

The B230et piston is a direct replacement but it has a shallower dish to raise compression. Common mod for that engine. I have a spare set here as my block has been oversized and I have new oversized pistons.

I have the same issue with the friction plate. Seems most people just go ahead with it but all I see is wasted grip. Going to be looking at finding something else sometime soon. First to get her driving on the old engine. To me, using less friction on a bigger engine is asking for premature clutch failure and that is not a job I want to be doing too often. Going to see what I can find, perhaps custom. Will keep you updated on my progress.

I've read that the flywheel is a direct fit in the bell housing but have not tried it yet. I know you have to cut a bit out for the crank sensor to read the flywheel.

Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 26 Aug 2014 02:59 am

I've studied Sachs sites very hard, found a suitably available code, now looking for a clutch kit. I will post the details soon. Stripped the head down and cleaned it, valve grinding next.

Trying to make it na and mot it with the standard exhaust, but need many mods. Main difficulty seems to be the oil filter stud, 940 doesn't have one and the 360 one doesn't come out, any suggestions?
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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Joris
Posts: 147
Joined: 13 Nov 2013 02:43 pm
Location: The Netherlands, across the pond

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Joris » 26 Aug 2014 10:56 am

Found this topic!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8663

A Audi 80 Quattro disc seems to fit, https://www.facebook.com/DriftFrits/pho ... =1&theater

Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 26 Aug 2014 12:07 pm

Yes I started with that, but I don't want something too advanced (yet).

The sach web site shows the description of the 360 disk as:

Teeth: 24
Hub profile: 18.30x20.4 24N

Hopefully this is a unique enough description and you can then search the database for the above for a 228mm disk. This gives me 9 hits, of which 8 are NLA leaving the following part number:

Proposed 360 friction disk @ 228mm: 1861 626 034 (£90 http://autopartsatoz.co.uk/sachs-clutch ... -disk.html)

Clutch kit: 3000 053 006 (available from wanapart for £103 + del)

I think this will fit a normal 360 or any 228mm 940 flywheel, its used in various Audi's including the 2.2l turbo listed as 104kw.

I've ordered the clutch kit, will post if it fits.
Last edited by Ride_on on 12 Oct 2014 01:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

MCHUDD
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Joined: 18 May 2006 03:43 pm
Location: BELFAST UNITED KINGDOM

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by MCHUDD » 26 Aug 2014 04:04 pm

Hi mate.
Work is coming along great.
Cheers Mark.
sm69 sm69 sm69 sm69 sm69

macplaxton
Posts: 3282
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by macplaxton » 27 Aug 2014 01:56 am

Ride_on wrote:mot it with the standard exhaust
Why? RFR is:
4. A silencer in such condition, or of such a type, that the noise emitted from the vehicle is clearly unreasonably above the level expected from a similar vehicle with a standard silencer in average condition.
Do the testers in the North have magically sensitive hearing??? It's not like they use a meter is it? (They do down here, IIRC 99dB max)
Ride_on wrote:Main difficulty seems to be the oil filter stud, 940 doesn't have one and the 360 one doesn't come out, any suggestions?
The word "difficulty" does not apply in this instance: Unscrew it.

Do I have to come up and do it for you?? :P :lol:

a) wrap a shit load of tape round it to protect the threads and grip it on the outside.
b) get an expanding wall/ground bolt of the appropriate ID to go in the hole in the middle.
c) two 3/4" UNF nuts and lock them together and wind it out.

Give in :oops: and head to the main stealer for one. If there are differences in part number, then it must be down to length. Some redblocks have an right-angle extension which has a jumbo banjo bolt holding it on to the block (where the filter head would be mounted directly to the side of the block on others). That'll be why you 940 one doesn't have one. It does, it's just not attached to the block itself, it'll be on the extension arm. :wink:

Keep up the good work! 340pw
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 27 Aug 2014 02:29 am

Lol well I have tried 2 ish out of your 3. I had 2 used oil filters and cannibalised them to make 2 'bolts' didn't really work as they are too soft, also tried an old timing belt and mole grips as s strap wrench and directly as as a thread protector also didn't work. Giving up will probably consist of making it turbo and making my own exhaust, but I like the rawl bolt idea, will give that a go.

I don't think the testers are that bothered about the noise, more ..gases in the wrong place.

The engine has the normal 940 turbo water/oil cooler/remote oil filter that is not compatible with the 360 exhaust, and the 940 engine mounts are not compatible with the direct oil filter. I'm trying to get it road worthy without any more fabrication.

Update on the clutch.
Wanapart phoned and told me they lied about them having it in stock, and its really someone else and it takes >2 weeks to get it here or they want a £10 surcharge to get here in normal time, so feeling ripped off I decided it would be less risky to pay someone else more. Also decided I want a HD cover plate which is about £200. A quattro clutch is not going to cut it, this is a mans car.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 22 Sep 2014 01:24 pm

Well I've decided to go with the Turbo exhaust and save a load of rebuilding, it can't be that hard to make a temporary exhaust for MOT with 940 and 360 bits, and a few adaptors.

-Still havn't got the car back from sprayer yet, but hopefully this week.
-Engine mainly built up with flywheel, head, manifolds etc.
-Clutch supply issues more or less cleared - 228mm std Audi friction disk, Sachs race cover plate and original Volvo release bearing, all from seperate sources.
-Check fitted the drive and clutch disk - the pilot bearing does fit the prop shaft, its just a tight fit, and the flywheel is shapped appropriately for the 360 (it does have a similar outer step as the 360 flywheel, just not identical).
2 ebay audi disks.JPG
Left - £30 (nicely finished German brand, advertised at 136bhp)
Right - £5 (is this wood?)
2 ebay audi disks.JPG (227.72 KiB) Viewed 7437 times
Checking position.JPG
Engine, Torque tube and clutch housing with friction disk against the flywheel
Checking position.JPG (151.1 KiB) Viewed 7437 times
215mm 360 disk.JPG
Original disk centered on the splines length
215mm 360 disk.JPG (119.99 KiB) Viewed 7437 times
228mm audi disk tape.JPG
removing the Disk to see to position pushing back again the masking take, note collar difference
228mm audi disk tape.JPG (96.89 KiB) Viewed 7437 times
The Audi disk collar is slightly further up the splines but is still getting full engagement so should not be an issue. Plenty of clearance to the pilot bearing.

-Cleaned up the head, new seals, valve grinding.
Valve before.jpg
Valve after.jpg
-Welded the turbo exhaust manifold crack - low current mig weld seems to work (testing on 940 at the moment)
-Attempted welding the gearbox mounts - No go - unweldable, need another solution
-Engine mounting - recovered and cleaned the 940 mounts, going to mount with 360 then measure up for fabricated brackets for the 940 mounts, including the Al angled bracket, so I just have to make a flat mounting like the 360.
Sorry no pics handy

-Painted the torque tube
Torque Cleaning.JPG
Only patchy rust but cleaned down to bare metal with sanding disk on angle grinder
Torque Cleaning.JPG (233.45 KiB) Viewed 7437 times
Torque Tube painted.JPG
painted all nice in epoxy, better to stand it vertically though, did the final coats this way
Torque Tube painted.JPG (207.07 KiB) Viewed 7437 times
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 28 Apr 2015 01:52 am

Update for April 2015.

Got the car back sprayed and posted photo's on the dreaded rust thread.

Got the pedals and box sprayed up, brakes all assembled, struts assembled with all refurbed parts. Steering rack, cleaned and sprayed with the new(ish) crossmember. Added a modified 940 jacking plate and some strengthening

Internal rust proofing done, used Rustbuster Mil spec and got about 3L in.

Bulkhead sound proofing mostly done, got the ventilation and controls module back in with the rebuilt engine bay vent box with a Mac special fan module and pond filter.

Got all the big heavy stuff in now, nearly finished Engine mounts and about to tackle wiring.
IMG_1835s.JPG
Gearbox and diff with strengthening brace
IMG_1835s.JPG (94.54 KiB) Viewed 7029 times
IMG_1797s.JPG
New water seperator for air box
IMG_1797s.JPG (79.01 KiB) Viewed 7029 times
IMG_1927s.JPG
Engine in on standard mounts
IMG_1927s.JPG (84.57 KiB) Viewed 7029 times
IMG_1934s.JPG
Underside drive installed
IMG_1934s.JPG (82.19 KiB) Viewed 7029 times
IMG_1949s.JPG
940 Engine side mount decide not to use
IMG_1949s.JPG (72.06 KiB) Viewed 7029 times
IMG_1955s.JPG
Custom Engine side mount
IMG_1955s.JPG (78.96 KiB) Viewed 7029 times
IMG_1958s.JPG
Chassis side mount
IMG_1958s.JPG (84.78 KiB) Viewed 7029 times
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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SteveP
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Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by SteveP » 28 Apr 2015 09:42 am

Looking pretty fantastic it has to be said! What sort of turbo clearance will the engine mounts give you? A friend had a 360 with the original B200E+T with standard mounts, 90+ manifold and a 13c and it was very tight. Are you sticking with the 13c or going for something like the larger 15G/16T? I'd go for one of the latter unless you already have a decent 13C as it shouldn't really be much more work.
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux

Ride_on
Posts: 2239
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
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Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by Ride_on » 29 Apr 2015 01:28 am

The 13c was already good but got it checked and refurbed with new seals anyway, they even sprayed all the bits individually, so looks nice. I don't want it too unreliable, I'll see how it is once I've maxed out the 13c. I'd actually like to prove a point that you don't need a bigger turbo or that bigger is just more lag (or disprove as the case may be). I want to log charge temps, pressure and so on.

The mounts give more or less the same clearance as the 940, there is just a 3cm offset towards the driver on the 360 as its mounts need to avoid the front beam/ARB mount. I think the 940 engine side mount would work, but it would need a funkier chassis side mount as it would be forward of the 360 bolts positions. The closest part is the water pipe has about 5mm to the mount corner as it goes over the edge of the chassis leg. That could be rerouted if necessary, but it won't hit it rotationally, the engine would have to move 5mm sideways. I'm trying to reuse Volvo Engineering as much as possible, ie keep the 940 Turbo oil drain and engine mounts. Still a bit concerned about oil squirters and 360 oil pump capability.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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SteveP
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Re: 360 turbo saloon tidy up

Post by SteveP » 29 Apr 2015 08:47 am

Sounds like a good plan! The 13c is probably enough initially in a 360, I've been in a couple of converted 240 Turbos with 13c's and they didn't feel much faster than my D5 - but the 360 would be a couple of hundred kilos lighter so perhaps that will help, it's certainly an easy upgrade if you do find it ever needs it :) I certainly wouldn't keep the standard 'T' Cam though, it's rubbish!
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux

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