JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by **jtbo** » 03 May 2005 06:27 pm

K-cam is in

But not much adjustments yet. I made a little more adjustments after that run, with other run there is not so deep downhill anymore, need to get pics out again

Post by **foggyjames** » 03 May 2005 06:31 pm

Comparing the curves, that's pretty obvious! Oops...

You need to up the redline to make full use of it though - 7000 is more like it. I might have to get my bottom end balanced once my K is in. We'll see anyway!

cheers

James

Post by **jtbo** » 03 May 2005 06:35 pm

Only problem is that f*cking renix box, it has hard limit at 6200rpm

I could build ignition to MS too, but I don't like to do it yet, track season is open

That flat spot at top of curve worries me most, it is that fuel map is wrong or ignition not up to it's task.

Post by **foggyjames** » 03 May 2005 06:55 pm

It might be a negative interaction between the Renix map and the K cam. If I get the same thing when I dyno my car, we can confirm that...

Definitely do away with Renix as soon as you can! MS&S is the way forward

cheers

James

Post by **classicswede** » 03 May 2005 07:11 pm

I would dump the renix and fit a dizzy and modual from an 85- 240 that what we did on our 360 and it reved nice upto 7500rpm.It would pull to just over 100mph in third gear not bad for a standard B200K on LPG!!!!

Dai

Post by **foggyjames** » 03 May 2005 07:22 pm

7500rpm on a B200K with 9mm rods....you're braver than me!! I'll take mine to 6500, but I'd not fancy it above that, at least with a stock bottom end.

I'm also thinking of ditching Renix in favour of a 240 setup as a stop-gap until I decide whether Megaspark is the way forward. I think the Renix unit isn't going to behave nicely with the K cam, and the advance is unlikely to work properly, as it appears to be an inverse system.

cheers

James

Post by **classicswede** » 03 May 2005 07:44 pm

Well they cant be that weak as I covered over 45,000 miles in about 14 months with my dad and brother hammering it. Also used for towing the 240 trailer and killed 2 clutches in the process!!! Cant remember why we scapped it but the front end is now my 340.
The 240 ignition should work well.

Dai

Post by **jtbo** » 03 May 2005 08:02 pm

I have found some sites about Renix modding, one of those is under construction now:
http://pquillon.chez.tiscali.fr/r5gtturbo/aeip_eng.htm

It had instructions how you can put new spark table into Renix and other useful stuff too.

Easiest would be to put B19E distributor and coil, then My MSExtra would give spark, but I'm not sure if rotor has enough surface so advance angle would be sufficient for all load settings. Only mod needed could be jamming distributor adjustments.

Then there is EDIS ignition, cost money

And four coil ignition is possible too, again costs money. Also my brain need to some mod so I can understand all this ignition stuff properly

B19 bottom end would be good, those are very strong and perhaps also better for high revs?

My Lambda did report around 0.76-0.80 Volts during those runs, that means rich mixture, 14.7:1 is around 0.45 Volts. However my engine seems not to like running 14.7:1 as it becomes jerky, however I try to aim to 0.5-0.55 Volts, that should be enough close around 14:1-13.8?:1 air/fuel mixture.

Of course it could be that my Lambda shows too high voltage, but I have never heard from that happening to anyone.

Post by **classicswede** » 03 May 2005 08:11 pm

Under what load was the lambda reading 0.7v. If it was under hard throttle it should read about 0.9 or under constant throttle the lambda should scan rich-leam. I am an LPG insaller and work for the omvl uk distributor so I am used to setting fueling.

Dai

Post by **foggyjames** » 03 May 2005 08:27 pm

They're not weak as such, but they have the weaker 9mm rods (against 13mm), and as the forces increase exponentially with RPM, I'd be cautious. Having said that, yours was obviously ok.

There's probably no need to fit 13mm rods to an NA B200, but I'd highly recommend balancing the bottom end for high RPM operation. This will smooth operation, reducing any extreme forces due to lower manufacturing tolerances for non-performance engines.

cheers

James

Post by **jtbo** » 03 May 2005 08:35 pm

classicswede wrote:Under what load was the lambda reading 0.7v. If it was under hard throttle it should read about 0.9 or under constant throttle the lambda should scan rich-leam. I am an LPG insaller and work for the omvl uk distributor so I am used to setting fueling.

Dai

Do you have MsExcel?

Here is datalog, 1,3MB, O2 is lambda in Volts and MAP is in Kpa (100Kpa=1Bar), rpm 9=900 and so on, TP is TPS sensor, not important as I use MAP to enrichments, TPS basicly triggers idle and full load currently in my setup.
http://www.janiervast.com/projekti/tied ... 031746.xls
You can Ignore Spark Angle as it is not used for anything, it just calculates it

I'm not very good with these things yet so all help is welcome

Post by **jtbo** » 07 May 2005 06:01 pm

Oh boy, now Lambda did become crazy, it started to show 0,84 Volts and was very slowly changing those readings, even engine off it did show 0,2Volts. I cut then power from lambda warmup wire and it shows 0-0,2 as it won't get enough warm without warming.

It was showing ok for 10-15 seconds this morning but no more.

So I need to tune without it then.

I really would need more fuel pressure or something as injector duty cycle is way too high, injectors should be enough for 140hp engine with 85% duty cycle, but now I need to run 120% at high loads. There is always little something to fine tune

Post by **huskyracer** » 07 May 2005 07:13 pm

Hi mate, your car should show 0.8v-0.9v lambda output under high load, this should be 12.5:1 AFR, If you run it at 14.7:1 it will get jerky and you are getting close to being lean enough to damage the pistons. I use 14.7:1 up to about 3500rpm and 30 to 40% engine load, then gradualy bring in more fuel untill around 80% load (top two or three lines of the map) which I try to keep at 12.5:1. You may find you make better power leaning it off but dont go leaner than about 13.5:1 realy it depends on the engine some like to run a bit lean, some a bit rich!
It sounds like the lambda is ok, normaly when they fail, they have no output or a very weak / lazy signal. If the engine has been running, and is shut down, you can still get a small signal from the residual gasses in the exhaust system, but .2v does seem high, I cant open your log file for some reason though, so cant tell exactly what is happening.
Be carefull running injector duties as high as 120 %, you might burn out the output transistors in the ecu, also, the pintles in the injectors can bounce above 90%. Did you initialy map the car with the lambda correction turned off? this is what I would do, if you dont, you end up going round in circles when bits of map seem good but the ecu has thrown a load of correction at it. I usualy map to 14.4-14.7:1using the lambda to monitor progress, then when it is mapped turn on lambda correction. the fuel pressure regulator usualy has the pressure rating stamped in the side, what is it? You can up the pressure by carefully squashing the regulator top down slightly in the vice, but do it in small steps, you cant un squash it!

Post by **jtbo** » 07 May 2005 08:15 pm

When I turn power on Lambda shows 0V, but if I wait a bit soon it starts raising and will stop around 0,2V.

Today I have been adjusting by feeling and I got map shifted to proper point, it sure has quite high. I need first get fuel pressure measured and after that I decide what to do, perhaps adjustable fuel pressure regulator as current one that I have is stock GLT regularor.

My Excel will open log file only if I double click it, or if I change extension to .txt and then import it.

Tomorrow I go to track, I will make table bit more richer for just to make sure it won't be too lean, lambda is now disconnected until I get around to investigate it more.

Post by **pettaw** » 07 May 2005 08:36 pm

Jani, did you have to tell your insurers that you put MS in your 360 and if so how much did they put up your premium by, if at all.

I'm just wondering whether to do the honest thing and declare it or whether I should try and hide it up.