JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

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jtbo
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 09 Aug 2010 06:10 pm

Today I did work bit more with it, there are bit more work than I thought, but nothing too big or difficult, at least I hope.

As front wing was off, I decided to clean rust from inner fender parts, some previous owner had crashed the car and there were small dent at front wing, also there were some damage at inner fender 'lip' which had then of course rusted a bit, also few normal places where rust forms, near windshield corner, seam of front piece etc. I used electric drill with metal wire tool installed to it, seemed to do work properly, however my electric drill seem to be getting hot quite easily so had to cool off every now and then to save it from extreme stress.

After I got bit tired, did some zink paint respray to cover bare metal, also installed two sheets of plastic to cover my work if it rains (it already did) and moved to work with driver's door (uhm, passengers door in UK).

Door is not very badly rusted, so I did not do anything to rust yet, but I took door panel out, just to find out more blu-tac has been used to attach plastic sheet under the door panel, well there it actually works rather well, took that plastic off too and lubricated door lock mechanism and linkage joints with gunoil, also lubricated window mechanism as it felt bit heavy and it did start to work bit better. Then there is that piece of plastic that comes sometimes off when rolling window up, now I could see how it is supposed to attach into door and pushed it firmly to place, seems to hold rather well, also I did use rubber re-conditioner to that part to make it bit softer and door seals, however my door seals are pretty much goner already, they are very flat and very teared.

Then it started to be hot again, so I did go under the car, there cleaned oily mess from ARB support beam and ARB, also from oil pan and near by areas. Started motor, which started with ease, running really well and found out that there is coolant dripping from where top hose connects to radiator, so tightened hose clamp a bit and leak did stop, so there my coolant had disappeared.

It is not as badly rusted as some I have seen posted here, but there is some work and some rust is really difficult to take out as it is so small places, must look if I have some other tools that could get into those really small places, but it is not really big job to take front wing out and remove the rust, everyone should do it as if it is done enough early it can save the car and at least saves ton of work, no welding required if done enough early.

There are quite many rust spots around the car, but all are rather small and only beginnings so I plan to fix every one of them, so that car will be virtually rust free when I'm finished.

But how do I get doors off and installed again without Volvo tool? I need to remove doors as it is almost impossible to threat rust with doors still installed.

I will post pics when I find out where I put camera when came from outside, I know it should be here at the table, but my eye can't spot it right now from this rather small table :shock:
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 09 Aug 2010 08:16 pm

Right, I found the camera, but for some odd reason all well blue things appear grey or almost black, also all well red things appear as grey and only few days ago my Nikon D40 decided to totally die, will not power up, now my already half broken (LCD has crack and also is lit full white) Ixus 75 decides to start taking pictures with silly colours, why everything have to come apart around me?

So, to the point.

Photo of horrible quality with colours totally wrong, even red fuses turned up grey:
Image
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 10 Aug 2010 11:11 am

Some pics, started working with inside of car today:
Image
Image

All painting and black stuff are temporary as I will continue working when weather clears a bit, that black stuff is rust converter, I will sand it off, well actually will use wire brush with drill and plan is to take all rust out from there, however some places are rather difficult to access.

Here is where I ended up as of yesterday:
http://jtbo.pp.fi/images/360/2010/rustp ... earing.jpg

Found out that camera works fine when I put it to different mode, some preset modes like landscape etc, I have no idea which one it is using now, but at least I can get some pics from largest automotive work that I have ever done and what I have done is not that much actually :lol:

Anyway feel free to suggest things, I'm rather noob with this even I know how things should be done, I just can't remember that all at once, making me do things often wrong way :mrgreen:

Problem is that I don't have too good supplies at the moment and only way to get more supplies is to get them via bicycle, from closest place that is 30km away.
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by trabitom99 » 10 Aug 2010 12:02 pm

just to find out more blu-tac has been used to attach plastic sheet under the door panel
I believe that is "factory blue tac" ;-) All of mine have had that too.

Good to see your car coming back together again Jani!

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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 10 Aug 2010 04:07 pm

Ah, so then my doors have never been opened since it left from factory, there were even speaker wires which of course never have been used as there are no speakers on doors and no any holes either :D

Today has been rather rainy day, installed new door seals to both doors, there was enough new door seal material that I bought late last winter. However I think that I took too thick from 3 possibilities, can't make door to shut very well, needs some force, must experiment with door lock adjustment, doors have always been such that they have needed lot of force. From near the door hinge it is compressing seal really as much as it can, but from upper part of door at some places not even 50% compression, which would be correct for seals to work properly. My door hinge pins are worn out, should replace them, also I'm having difficulties with door hinge pins as they seem to be difficult to remove without proper tools.

Also I modified boot seal support thing, that tiny metal lip, needed some hammering as it was not positioned correctly, also installed some new seal there too, whole seal would need to be replaced, but I don't have enough material, maybe half I could replace, maybe upper part is more important?

Then there is problem that stops progress until I can find solution, I have some holes and I don't know how I should fix those, do I cut huge chunk out and make all boxed sections from scratch or how I should proceed?

Here you can see this problem hole and those boxed sections where I did cut some rotten metal out already. Last pic was taken earlier so in 3rd pic is section that is bottom of 4th pic, you can barely see the hole inside of that boxed section in 4th pic:
Image

Image

Image

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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 12 Aug 2010 07:54 pm

Today I patched the hole, not very well I must say, but with zero skill of mine what to expect?

Image

I welded both above and below, I made patch bit larger than hole so welds from below are at different places, should be enough strong, it will get ton of black sticky stuff to both sides when I'm finished, next I smooth those welds and weld more if needed, but that is tomorrow or day after tomorrow.


Also I have figured out what is design flaw of 300, which causes doors and floors to rust more easily.

Small plastic trim that is installed between window and door, there is no seal, only that brush that cleans window, but no rubber seal, I have tiny on other side, but none at other side, so it perhaps wears out or was installed only to some strips. Water enters to door like window would be open, then runs between door cover and door, drops to top of door seal and gets mats soaked wet.

I did try to improvise new seal from old windshield wiper blades, but can't get them glued enough well, anyway my other cars have wiper blade type of rubber that seals the gap between window and door so that water does not get into door so easily. Something like 1cm wide rubber of enough stiff should do the job, maybe T-shaped rubber would be easiest to glue so that it stays on place and no such problems anymore, only problem, where to get such rubber :shock:
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by volvodspec » 12 Aug 2010 08:04 pm

what kind of welder are you using Jani?

i spot a weird wirefeed of some sort; maybe a setting on the machine is incorrect.

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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 12 Aug 2010 08:21 pm

volvodspec wrote:what kind of welder are you using Jani?

i spot a weird wirefeed of some sort; maybe a setting on the machine is incorrect.
It is such that can use gas and without gas wire, I'm currently using without gas as here gas is priced out of reach for any normal people.

I had too low feed at beginning, got it better, but it sometimes just cuts, don't know why, also it does make holes very easily, I can't keep it one place enough long to make weld trough, I have to move it very slowly, then it seem to do best work, but it does not work how I would like to.

What I learned some time ago was that I should keep it at one spot for 2 seconds, then move to next place, but can't get so low power settings that thing would not melt hole even to new metal in that time, however keeping shorter time in one spot it is easy not to get enough penetration, best is to weld 4 seconds in a row while moving 2-3cm in that time, but it generates lot of heat, quite challenging, it is very short time window really where that makes proper welds, unlike other machines that I have used, also time changes every time when I press the trigger, or so I think.

There is feed adjustment of 1-10 I think and it was between 6 and 7 after I increased it, power was lowest setting, which was 1 of 5 I think.

There is no other adjustments, also I think that it does not feed wire at stable speeds, maybe there is some slippage, but can't get more pressure to increase grip of pulleys either, so it is bit of problematic this my welding.

Made only 4 holes that I had to patch up.

Sometimes it cuts with handle pushing back, sometimes it does cut without handle pushing back, that is with same settings, I think it should do one or another, not the both.
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by volvodspec » 12 Aug 2010 09:58 pm

hmm;

welding without gas will burn the wire; wich is why you need a heavy wire feed to compensate and lower Amperage to compensate burning the wire, it might even have affect on burning through the metal faster as the gas keeps O² away from the weld so a bit less heat.

the wire burning a bit away how it's not supposed to can also feel like a incorrect wirefeed as you don't hold the pistol allways at exactly the same distance.

i'd try again on setting 2 with slightly less wire feed and a bottle of Argon connected up to see how that goes; you can patchweld continuously but also skip every 5cm and after you're round quick run with a wire brush and spotweld next to it till you're all the way around, that brings a lot less heat in the steel.

weird the gas is so pricey there :? it's nothing special imo.. i've just got a new bottle of Argon for my TIG machine, 25L cost 40 euro's, and we pay 50 euro's for renting the bottle every year.

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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 12 Aug 2010 10:14 pm

Argon would cost something like 300€, so no go.

My wire is not normal, it has some additive so it is designed for welding without gas, gas is kind of in wire thing.

If I put machine to 2, there is no way to avoid holes, it is zap -> hole then, maybe machine is to be used only at shipyards :lol:

We have two gas suppliers and they don't like from private customers, so their products are priced to company level which use it a lot, one big bottle would last at least 10 years on my usage, but there is base price that is over 200 a year if I don't remember wrong, then charges from bottle, which you can't buy, then gas, all added up it is insane.

There are cheaper solutions, but those are hard to get in my location.

Anyway patch seem to hold up beating with sledgehammer, so seem to be some solid welds there somewhere too, will grind those down quite a bit and do some testing some near day, maybe I can make it burn better with cleaning the head of that handle or whatever that is called, must be a year since I cleaned it last time, then again I don't weld even every year :mrgreen:

It is very difficult spot to weld from below, there is so much stuff on way, also that jacking point where from car is lifted up with axle stand, can't see, welding handle won't fit, mask will not stay on, quite pain really.
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by volvodspec » 12 Aug 2010 10:21 pm

dawm, in that case Argon is like liquid gold there! maybe a trip to holland is a good idea then :lol: see Amsterdam for a day and pick up a 25L bottle at a local welding supplier for 100 euro's and your done; shame the fuel isn't free :(

i think setting 2 with argon would probably work out without burning holes;
another advantage of that is that the welds don't go as thick so you spend much less time with grinding them down. the special wire you speak off helps a bit with it but i believe that that type of wire is still designed to be used with Argon too.

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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by Hell Driver » 12 Aug 2010 10:41 pm

It's not easy welding upside down! And things like that jacking point really get in the way. It takes a while to get good results and those settings of wire speed and power really make the difference as does gas. I am still far from satisfied with my welding skills but I managed to get mine through the M.O.T. I'm hoping to do a good job on the Mk 1 (when I start work on it!). I'm going to really try to get all the rust/contamination off a lot better with sand or shot blasting and try not to rush the welding. With the car I've just done I put myself under pressure to get it done for summer. I'm happy that my welding is safe and strong enough but when you have serious corrosion it's worth taking time to do it properly.

I can't believe how expensive your gas is, here I paid about £12 a small bottle. I must have used about 3 or 4 on the whole car. That did patches along floor to sills both sides, patch inside foot well to inner sill, 2 small patches to rear cross members by tank, front valance top and bottom and 3 or 4 small patches on the sills and inner sills near rear jacking points.

Looks like you're getting on well with the car, keep up the good work! :360:
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 12 Aug 2010 11:12 pm

volvodspec wrote:dawm, in that case Argon is like liquid gold there! maybe a trip to holland is a good idea then :lol: see Amsterdam for a day and pick up a 25L bottle at a local welding supplier for 100 euro's and your done; shame the fuel isn't free :(

i think setting 2 with argon would probably work out without burning holes;
another advantage of that is that the welds don't go as thick so you spend much less time with grinding them down. the special wire you speak off helps a bit with it but i believe that that type of wire is still designed to be used with Argon too.
Indeed, very expensive, but they have monopoly over here, so can't do a much, we would need some other european alternatives here and not only those payments to Greek and stuff :D

Wire is designed to be used without gas, gasless welding wire, filled core something, I don't know what damn thing is called in global language :lol:

Translator says it is core cored wire, which does not make any sense to me, but flux cored welding wire is what I ended up after searching, if that makes any sense. It is used when you weld outside with MIG as welding with gas is not very possible if there is wind.

Of course I weld outdoors, I do have a garage too, but it is not really a weld proof, might burn if I weld there. So I weld in wind.

For me however welding is not easy at all, it is so long from school where I studied it that I have forgotten most of it, I believe biggest flaw is with my one finger and rest of arm, need more welding to get them operate properly :D

One of the problems is also that my angle grinder either will not quite fit to places there, also I have only one cutting disc and it is rather worn, so it limits reach quite a bit, to get new one I would need to bicycle 30km to shop and 30km back in roads that resemble mountain roads on how there is climbing, we have warning signs of steep hills here, so I doubt that I will do trip with bicycle 2nd time, I did it once and after 75% of trip I was all out, had to walk and lean to bike while walking, those hills are quite harsh on my legs, certainly 110kg + 24kg bicycle is not helping either, anyone can try to do same with such weights, that trp is 60km of steep hills :roll: :lol:

It is few years that they stopped selling those small bottles here, I have heard that at southern finland some places still offer them, but nothing here, quite annoying really.

Welding those boxed sections when I get this patch to level which I'm happy with, there it is more difficult to make metal in correct shape and also angles of welds will be really challenging, I can't bent metal after welding, have to make all bending before as I don't have enough tools or muscles, so will be interesting, maybe I make them in several pieces, but that also is bit problematic, pieces that I make change sizes when I get them from garage to car, I'm sure that must be the reason why pieces don't fit :lol:
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by Chris_C » 13 Aug 2010 12:20 am

jtbo wrote:gasless welding wire, filled core something, I don't know what damn thing is called in global language :lol:
Gasless welding wire is what we'd call it bud.

How close is your nearest pub :lol: Pubgas is horrific, but surely better than no gas? Having said that, the inner wings on Kar were done with gasless wire and they came out well... I'll ask my mate what he reckons for you.
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Re: JTbo's project (360GL B200K 1988)

Post by jtbo » 13 Aug 2010 02:20 pm

Nearest pub is as far as nearest town, we have here only one small food shop and petrol station which is not selling any petrol, actually whole station is on sale at the moment, oh and library, but that is it.

Oh yes, there is one car repair man who is not willing to sell any supplies and also one pipe repairer, who is doing only pipe repairing and not selling gas or anything like that, it reads under my profile pic that I'm at middle of nowhere for reason :D

Too damn hot today to work with car +25C very damp weather (kind you get at jungles of Brazil or some pacific islands), I walked to car and back ( less that 10 meters from door ) and shirt became all wet, so I mimic squirrel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfijvBN2GMM
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