lowring my volvo

Front axle, springs, shock absorbers, wheels, bearings, calipers, drums...
Tuning: suspension, discs, alloys upgrade...
NO parts requests here, please use our V3M BUY & SELL corner
User avatar
Chris_C
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9600
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 11:53 pm
Location: South Coast, UK

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Chris_C » 30 Sep 2012 07:01 pm

Attack2001 wrote:I've got land rover shocks on the back of mine, i've got the shocks that the landrover guys buy, to uprate there landrovers! and there still not stiff enough... but i do have 400lbs front springs :/ So if you've got softer front springs it might even it out a bit and make the back seem a bit stiffer, however i dont know. They are a dam sight better than standard, just not good enough for me :)
I'm struggling here. Lots.
I was going to go with the obvious standard answer we've all done before, "dampers will never be stiff". But, I'm just not feeling that today.

So, I thought I'd be useful and find something you could replace the 300 damper with that would actually be stiffer. Try these.
Image

For anyone who is reading this and actually thinking of taking any advice, search for "dampers don't provide stiffness" on this forum. It's a much discussed topic. The peer reviewed references are available to anyone who actually wants to listen.
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

macplaxton
Posts: 3283
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by macplaxton » 30 Sep 2012 08:24 pm

Chris_C wrote:I'm struggling here. Lots.
You mean you're struggling to comprehend technically inaccurate sloblock?

I have come across a stiff damper before, but it was 'kin seized solid. sm4
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5461
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by classicswede » 30 Sep 2012 10:42 pm

I'm pretty sure we have gather that he needs to increase the spring rate at the back. This can be done either by adding a second spring, reworking the existing spring or fitting coilovers.
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image

Attack2001
Posts: 1015
Joined: 05 Jun 2011 03:45 pm
Location: Rochester, Kent
Contact:

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Attack2001 » 30 Sep 2012 11:41 pm

One of my friends tried to buy direst from gaz, they told him to do one and go to nev :/ I've got monroe adventure landrover 90/110 front shocks on mine, polybushed as well, and its not good enough :( Bigger shocks stiffen up the jerky/quick bumps, however long windy ones it just sits down and rubs the tyres :roll: So for drifing there fine, going fast when you want the car to sit and hold on, there useless... So 6 linking is on the cards for me :D

Thomas.................
Image

macplaxton
Posts: 3283
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by macplaxton » 30 Sep 2012 11:46 pm

Attack2001 wrote:Bigger shocks stiffen up the jerky/quick bumps, however long windy ones it just sits down and rubs the tyres :roll:
So, have you figured out what dampers are meant to do yet?
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

Evoman
Posts: 1688
Joined: 15 Sep 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Mid Wales

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Evoman » 01 Oct 2012 12:31 am

To my understanding you have two actions of damping, compression and rebound, most car dampers are single action and therefore only dampen rebound. So control so the spring rebound, a fast rebound (low damping) would give a boaty ride. Double action dampers also control the compression of the spring and so the stiffness by controlling the compression of the spring. This is the case of bike shocks (mine have adjustable low/high speed compression and rebound damping). Now I dont know how common double action dampers are on cars. I know that for certain my dampers are single action. Stiffer dampers would help stiff springs to control the rebound but unless they are double action they wouldnt increase the stiffness of suspension, this can only be done with stiffer springs.

Shout at me if I am wrong, please, I dont like being wrong :P
Image

Evoman
Posts: 1688
Joined: 15 Sep 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Mid Wales

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Evoman » 01 Oct 2012 12:32 am

Evoman wrote:To my understanding you have two actions of damping, compression and rebound, most car dampers are single action and therefore only dampen rebound. So control so the spring rebound, a fast rebound (low damping) would give a boaty ride. Double action dampers also control the compression of the spring and so the stiffness by controlling the compression of the spring. This is the case of some (expensive) bike shocks (mine have adjustable low/high speed compression and rebound damping..but I got a bargin). Now I dont know how common double action dampers are on cars. I know that for certain my dampers are single action. Stiffer dampers would help stiff springs to control the rebound but unless they are double action they wouldnt increase the stiffness of suspension, this can only be done with stiffer springs.

Shout at me if I am wrong, please, I dont like being wrong :P
Image

volvosneverdie
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9143
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 04:22 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Toon

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by volvosneverdie » 01 Oct 2012 07:14 am

Can someone explain double action dampers? I thought all dampers were double action by design.. it's just a piston, oil, two chambers and a few holes in between innit?
Confused.com.
Image

User avatar
Chris_C
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9600
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 11:53 pm
Location: South Coast, UK

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Chris_C » 01 Oct 2012 09:51 am

http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outd ... -bike4.htm

I'm really not up on how they work, but that site seems to tie in with what I remember.

The flash animation shows two valves, one for compression, one for extension. In a car, 90% of the time these are fixed, unless one gets "adjustables". On a mountain bike, depending on how much you pay the man (well, guess that's the same on a car, but they are more common on bikes) you can adjust both the compression and extension valves (bump and rebound) individually, hence double action. I *think* I'm correct in saying the Classic Swede dampers only vary the rebound, but am happy to be corrected (on all the above, I have *very* little clue about bikes, just working it out on the fly)

The key to the thinking is to work out why you need the damping. Then to work out how much damping LR dampers give.
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

Evoman
Posts: 1688
Joined: 15 Sep 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Mid Wales

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Evoman » 01 Oct 2012 10:27 am

http://www.blackartdesigns.com/id4.html

I have found this useful

If I were to compress my dampers there is no resistance (no compression/bump damping) when I try and pull the shaft out there is (rebound damping) Im not exactly sure how a single action damper works internally but i assume some sort of on way valve. Some dampers are monotube and double tube. Monotube is where the two chambers are line with each other, double tube is when oil flows from an inner tube to outer tube during damping. In that leak it seems it also shows a shock with what I call a remote resivour, I'd still call that a monotube
Image

Attack2001
Posts: 1015
Joined: 05 Jun 2011 03:45 pm
Location: Rochester, Kent
Contact:

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Attack2001 » 01 Oct 2012 10:51 am

macplaxton wrote:
Attack2001 wrote:Bigger shocks stiffen up the jerky/quick bumps, however long windy ones it just sits down and rubs the tyres :roll:
So, have you figured out what dampers are meant to do yet?
I know what there for, but even though its not the right way to do it, a bigger damper valved for a 2tonne car will stiffen up the back of a 950kg car. Just how, and when it stiffens it varies as its the wrong way to do it :)

Thomas.................
Image

Evoman
Posts: 1688
Joined: 15 Sep 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Mid Wales

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Evoman » 01 Oct 2012 11:20 am

Is it really stiffer? or is the rebound so slow that the springs never really come back to full extension after the first compression and so appear stiffer?
Image

Attack2001
Posts: 1015
Joined: 05 Jun 2011 03:45 pm
Location: Rochester, Kent
Contact:

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by Attack2001 » 01 Oct 2012 11:55 am

Evoman wrote:Is it really stiffer? or is the rebound so slow that the springs never really come back to full extension after the first compression and so appear stiffer?
Its definitely stiffer than the originals, but its just not stiff enough for me. You can feel it stiffer when driving over white lines, speed bumps, little bumps in the road, rocks on bumpy roads haha but yeah, because the backs so soft and the fronts so stiff, it just pushes on aswell, so i need to get it all balanced aswell :)

Thomas.............
Image

classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5461
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by classicswede » 01 Oct 2012 02:31 pm

Chris_C wrote:. I *think* I'm correct in saying the Classic Swede dampers only vary the rebound, but am happy to be corrected (on all the above, I have *very* little clue about bikes, just working it out on the fly)
The rear dampers are bump and rebound adjustable with a single adjuster. The fronts are rebound only. I could also supply dampers with seperate bump and rebound adjusters but I doubt any 300 is at that kind of level just yet.
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image

classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5461
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Re: lowring my volvo

Post by classicswede » 01 Oct 2012 02:34 pm

Attack2001 wrote:
Evoman wrote:Is it really stiffer? or is the rebound so slow that the springs never really come back to full extension after the first compression and so appear stiffer?
Its definitely stiffer than the originals, but its just not stiff enough for me. You can feel it stiffer when driving over white lines, speed bumps, little bumps in the road, rocks on bumpy roads haha but yeah, because the backs so soft and the fronts so stiff, it just pushes on aswell, so i need to get it all balanced aswell :)

Thomas.............
They do provide a lot more bump but they do not work very well with the original springs imo.

If the front end is puch forwards that to me suggest you have an issue with wheel aligment rather than spring rates etc. What CC angles are you running?
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image

Post Reply