curing body roll.

[A M R]

so do you advise taking the ARB out if for instance you were using the car for track racing?

[classicswede]

I bet you wish you had been here before as I get the springs made for £50 a pair to any spec I want for the 300

Have ya sorted mine out

sorted

[foggyjames]

AMR: Not without doing lots of other stuff!

I guess the point is that an anti-roll bar is more of a 'band aid' than something which should be done in a 'ground up' build...but most people here aren't doing a ground up build, so bolt-ons are much appriciated.

cheers

James

[IvanAE86]

It's not necessarily a band-aid.. most decent cars come with one fitted from factory. Not only tail-heavy cars mind you.
An ARB allows you to keep springrates at a comfortable level, while doing a good job of keeping body roll in check. The fact that a 340/360 comes without it standard will make it tricky to get the balance right, since it's designed to work without it. I do believe it would complement a stiffer front end nicely.

I also dont see how an anti roll bar qualifies as something complicated (other than the fact that I havent got my head around installing one on my car yet).

[A M R]

well it comes with a front ARB right? what would be the effect of taking this out? would it handle better on a track if i took it out and put stiffer springs in place?

[foggyjames]

I think the point is that in an ideal world you don't really need one...but on the other hand I doubt you'll see an improvement if you remove it!

cheers

James

[IvanAE86]

On a nicely surfaced track it might do better without the ARB, and with stiffer springs (combined with some decent slicks). On street you will just bounce off the road with the springrate overkill.
Track performance of the 360 is a joke anyway, it might be fun and cheap, but it's not anywhere near competitive unless it's really well built, and then it's still more drivers skill that gets you ahead of the stock bimmers than the qualities of the car. I've been dabbling on track with the 360 for 3 years now, I should know. The dutch cupcars manage to stay near the front of the pack on amateur student banger-racer trackdays, and I bet that's mostly due to the experience of the drivers.

Back on subject: I would rather add the rear anti rollbar and have a tangible every-day life improvement in handling, than remove the front one and go nuts with the springrate for a possible improvement on track.

[classicswede]

I would always use a arb tbh especialy on the front.

As to the rear arb I have found they do make a difference.

If you take a 240DL with 16mm rear arb you get quite a lot of roll at the back and not very good grip. Then look try a 240GLT with a 19mm rear arb push that around a corner the you can feel the rear end pull down and grip in.

For best handling you need to balace out the Springs with arb imo.

[Stuntman]

Ah, but Dai, your forgetting us that have the twin 19mm rear bars and the twin 21mm roll bars, soon to be 25mm front and 23mm rear

I have almost zero body roll in my (off topic) 245 estate with shortened coils and new GLT shocks. I'd imagine a 23mm would be the max on a 300 with a 21mm max at the rear if you can get one on, I'm ready to be corrected.

[classicswede]

With stockish springs I would say 25mm for the front and 21mm rear.
On stiffend (but still road useble) 23mm front 19mm rear

These fiqures are guide line only - I know some who have the 27mm front arb will say they are great but I think are a little ott.

Again I will point out everyones tast is different.

[IvanAE86]

Just FYI: some guys that run mx-5's/miata's in the US auto-x slaloms prefer to go with higher springrates and ditch the ARB alltogether. This helps improve grip in a way because it allows true independent movement on all 4 corners, but then the roll needs to be sorted by the springs/shocks alone.

Suspension on an mx-5 is superior to the good old mc-pherson/solid rear combo so I suspect it would only make things worse on a 300 when you remove the ARB.

[jimf671]

Ivans point about grip is a good one. This fits with my experience of the 340/360 and with my experience of Triumph/Talbot rally cars. Compliance is the key. Keep those wheels pushing down onto the ground and you can apply more power or more braking and still maintain control.