Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gauges

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trabitom99
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Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gauges

Post by trabitom99 » 13 Sep 2015 05:32 pm

Evening all,

I'd like to fit this early ambient temperature gauge to my DLS and I'm a bit uncertain about what to do as unfortunately I've only got the gauge itself (284583 for the 80 - 82 dash) but no sensor, no wiring and no instructions. The idea is to fit it under the radio.

Image
Image

My first question: will the Smiths sender 3287305 (part 18 in the diagram) work? This was fitted to MkIIs with a Smiths outside temperature gauge in a "6 dial dash" for 83 and 84 cars, square VDO sensors came along in 1985.

Image

I'm not sure if the early "extra gauges" were made by Smiths - I'm guessing they were since the "Smiths to VDO" changeover was in 1985, a few years later.

My second question: how do I wire them up? There's a scan of a blue leaflet on V3M here:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3824
but it's for the 83-84 gauge type.

Here's a pic of the back of the gauge:

Image

At the top you can see the spade connectors for the gauge illumination. At the bottom there are three spade connectors, the lower two are labelled + and - .

I found this link from someone who changed the face of a Volvo 343 gauge to fit his Lotus Elan:
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-c ... 16059.html

He writes:
I have wired the positive into the feed to the fuel gauge, the ground into a suitable existing ground, the built in light into the wiring for the original gauge light, which just leaves me to run the green wire to the sensor location and the black wire from the sensor back to a suitable ground location.
So would the following be correct?
+ to suitable 12V
- to a suitable earth

the top connection of the "bottom three" to the sensor (SB, black)
sensor to a suitable earth (BR, brown):

Image

Before asking more detailed stuff like "what is considered suitable" or how to connect the illumination, is the above more or less correct?

Any help most appreciated!

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 226000kms 1988

macplaxton
Posts: 3282
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by macplaxton » 14 Sep 2015 01:49 am

Hello Tom

340pw

Good to see some blue box p0rn! :mrgreen:
trabitom99 wrote:My first question: will the Smiths sender 3287305 (part 18 in the diagram) work?
A1: Dunno. Haven't given it any thought whatsoever.
trabitom99 wrote:I'm not sure if the early "extra gauges" were made by Smiths - I'm guessing they were since the "Smiths to VDO" changeover was in 1985, a few years later.
A1,5: Is there a clue on the instrument anywhere at all? (looks like a 1979 date code) Tiny writing on the face of the dial? I'll give you a big fat clue...




















































It's a Image
trabitom99 wrote:My second question: how do I wire them up? [snip] Here's a pic of the back of the gauge
A2: We'll come back to this shortly.
trabitom99 wrote:I found this link from someone who changed the face of a Volvo 343 gauge to fit his Lotus Elan:
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-c ... 16059.html
Not only has he annoyed me by wrecking a Volvo gauge, he said "brought" when he has "bought" sm31

....sorry......

back to A2: Wire 'em up as per "9" making allowances where necessary for the wiring colours, but it should give you an idea.

ImageV343_ambient_temperature_gauge by macplaxton, on Flickr

Try these instructions and adapt them: http://www.ohio.edu/people/ridgely/volv ... nstall.pdf and slightly different editon: http://www.240.se/litteratur/3-38-10.pdf

Not sure if the VDO 300/400 series sensor Volvo 3208409 (OP) is what you want or a VDO 323-801-008-002D.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Rich
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

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trabitom99
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Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by trabitom99 » 14 Sep 2015 08:50 am

Rich, thanks a million, that's a great help. You saved me from buying the wrong sensor for starters!

The VDO sensor (323-801-008-002D) seems to be much more readily available than the Smiths one - but looking at the wiring loom, the mounting bracket for the bumper etc. it seems it might be an idea to be patient and wait for a 240 set to pop up and go for that rather than trying to make up everything from scratch.

Cheers

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 226000kms 1988

macplaxton
Posts: 3282
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by macplaxton » 14 Sep 2015 10:36 am

Well I didn't know until last night, but my eyeballs were telling me it wasn't a Smiths.

Smiths gear has tell-tale marking even if it is doesn't have its name on the face.

Take this speedometer:
Image
DSCF0914 by macplaxton, on Flickr

On the bottom right of the face is a Smiths number SRM 6007-00 (Typical Smiths format AAA NNNN-NN) they are either there or in the six o'clock position. (as below: SNT 5370/00 (slash instead of dash, but you get the idea. 900 is the turns per mile)
Image
2013-08-05_15-27-04_120.jpg by macplaxton, on Flickr

Only thing VDO I could find to hand was a Volvo blue box universal tachometer, probably 66, judging by the DAF n-nn-nnnnnn style part number.

For starters, it feels more like 60mm than 52mm.
Image
IMG_20150914_095014_658 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Forget the fact it has VDO on the face. :oops: It has a number near the twelve o'clock position on the face.
Image
IMG_20150914_095157_770 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Have a gander at the brackets and knurled screws.
Image
IMG_20150914_095026_162 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
IMG_20150914_095033_883 by macplaxton, on Flickr

See the "Zyl" and "Tak" stamped on the case? Also the irregular hexagon / truncated triangle stamp with the date on it.
Image
IMG_20150914_095100_277 by macplaxton, on Flickr

And not forgetting bragging about where it's made stamped on the back.
Image
IMG_20150914_095126_423 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Appreciate that some of these aren't on all instruments, but there are some usually left and/or tucked inside.

The main difference between the 200 and the 300 is the profile of the bezels. 200 being flat rather than pointy.
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

macplaxton
Posts: 3282
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Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by macplaxton » 14 Sep 2015 10:54 am

trabitom99 wrote:it seems it might be an idea to be patient and wait for a 240 set to pop up and go for that rather than trying to make up everything from scratch.
Scrub that idea as there won't be much if anything in the kit worth having.

What do you need? One sender, a nut, a bit of wiring, L-bracket? I'll look into it some time.
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

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trabitom99
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Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by trabitom99 » 14 Sep 2015 11:08 am

Thanks for that Rich. I think I'd better check under the bracket and the knurled screws, going by various old Ebay listings I suspect there may be "VDO" written under there ...

Cheers

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 226000kms 1988

User avatar
trabitom99
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Posts: 4390
Joined: 06 Jan 2007 02:38 pm
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Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by trabitom99 » 14 Sep 2015 12:34 pm

macplaxton wrote:
trabitom99 wrote:it seems it might be an idea to be patient and wait for a 240 set to pop up and go for that rather than trying to make up everything from scratch.
Scrub that idea as there won't be much if anything in the kit worth having.
What do you need? One sender, a nut, a bit of wiring, L-bracket? I'll look into it some time.
I think you're right, having looked at some of those old Ebay listings. 250$ for a gauge, WTF? Looks like it'll have to be made up the hard way ...

Skandix do whole kits (maybe I could ask what they want for one minus the gauge):
http://www.skandix.de/de/fahrzeug-teile ... z/1032572/

They sell seperate senders as well, although I'm not sure which one is right. Assuming 1129311 is the Volvo part number for the 240 ambient temperature kit, this website says that 1347010 is be the corresponding Volvo part number for the sender. That would then be this:
http://www.skandix.de/de/fahrzeug-teile ... r/1013534/
rather than this:
http://www.skandix.de/de/fahrzeug-teile ... r/1033821/

But the fitting instructions seem to suggest its the earlier-looking type 323-801-008-002D ...

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 226000kms 1988

macplaxton
Posts: 3282
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by macplaxton » 14 Sep 2015 01:33 pm

I wouldn't get too hung up over Volvo part numbers just yet.

Looking at VIDA, sensor isn't sold separately for the 200. The 300/400 sensor that was last sold separate looks more on the diagram like a plastic thing. As does that later gauge instructions:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3250#p43763 that is just a push fit clip in the hole. Less mounting hardware, but a special plug required...

Those plastic things, if you can get something that electrically matches, only cost a sky diver.
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

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trabitom99
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Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by trabitom99 » 14 Sep 2015 06:28 pm

Well I've now learned it pays to look under the bracket :-) VDO Made in Germany:

Image

Next step is to get hold of a suitable sensor. I think I'd aim for the "old style" rather than the plastic one, considering the gauge was made in 12/79 but I should have a spare late VDO temperature sensor somewhere. I guess the worst that can happen is that it won't work ...

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 226000kms 1988

macplaxton
Posts: 3282
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by macplaxton » 14 Sep 2015 07:00 pm

trabitom99 wrote:Well I've now learned it pays to look under the bracket :-) VDO Made in Germany
ROFL! sm75

I'll see if I can find some bits to make the wiring authentic.
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

User avatar
trabitom99
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Posts: 4390
Joined: 06 Jan 2007 02:38 pm
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Re: Sender and wiring for very early ambient temperature gau

Post by trabitom99 » 14 Sep 2015 07:19 pm

:oops: I could've saved half an A4 page of forum post! :oops:

Thanks Rich ...
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 226000kms 1988

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