Vehicle Speed Sensors

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Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 16 Mar 2016 03:08 am

This is for later fuel management systems (or MPGuino MPG meters) that want the vehicle speed in pulsed form. I'm not 100% sure it is needed for LH2.4 and I havn't my car to test it on yet. You pop out the false panel on the back of the VDO speedo and this screws in. Its a copy of the one fitted to injection 440s, Mk1,2 Golfs etc.

I have some prototypes ready for self assembly if anyone is interested. It requires some soldering and gluing, I can stretch to building a few for testing but I plan on giving these away as a kit and pretty cheap. I'll even make the design accessible on-line for anyone to print themselves or pick up from a local printer. The should be usable by VW owners too.

The kit will probably consist of:
An axial resistor
A 3D printed holder
A Hall sensor
2 screws
Instructions

Both sets of proto's needed a bit of wittling, but this is just a holder at the end of the day. As long as it close enough to the rotor to pick up the magnetism and not so close as to hit the speedo needle ring it should work fine.

I'm looking for 2 testers to try these out for fit and function, you need to wire them up at least to an LED+resistor then spin the speedo with a bit of wire bent at the end.
Attachments
IMG_2250s.JPG
IMG_2250s.JPG (60.61 KiB) Viewed 5444 times
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Chris-m
Posts: 55
Joined: 16 May 2015 03:52 pm
Location: lincolnshire

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Chris-m » 16 Mar 2016 08:51 pm

Id like to buy a kit if possible

how much you looking to sell them for?

My car wont be ready for a few months so I wouldn't be very useful as a tester, but id like to purchase one while they're available

cheers
Chris

Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 16 Mar 2016 11:37 pm

I guessed there would be difficulties with real world testing in projects, this is why I suggested testing with an LED on the bench fitted to the speedo. If you have the speedo out you should be able to test it.

An assembled test unit will be delivered free to keep, to 2 people willing to put in the test effort. I could probably even supply it fitted with an LED that you cut off. So you just need to fit it, supply power and twiddle the speedo drive with a standard bit of car wire while checking the LED and needle.

The kits will probably be around GBP5, need to add everything up, packaging posting etc.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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Chris_C
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Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Chris_C » 17 Mar 2016 03:38 pm

I have a 440 sensor fitted to my car, a spare dashboard and an oscilloscope.

Would you like a comparison test run?
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12 - NASLR Time 15.7secs
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5
Ex:
'91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 17 Mar 2016 08:26 pm

Yeah that would be good, PM me your address.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Chris-m
Posts: 55
Joined: 16 May 2015 03:52 pm
Location: lincolnshire

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Chris-m » 18 Mar 2016 05:35 pm

Sorry thought you were after road testing, id be willing to bench test

id also be willing to pay p+p and a donation for your time

pm me

cheers
Chris

Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 23 Mar 2016 02:08 am

Chris-m, pm me your address.

Chris_c part on the way as soon I get to PO.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 23 Mar 2016 03:23 am

BOM
1 x 2k7 1/4 axial resistor
2 x No.2 x 9.5mm self tapper screw
1 x A3144E through hole hall switch
10mm x small heat shrink
3 x 7cm small gauge wire
1 x 3D printed holder (will be available on Tinkercad so you can order or print your own, Search for Vehicle speed sensor VW Volvo and request 100% solid)
Pea of epoxy glue

1. Form the hall sensor by widening out the legs a little and bending the plastic part at 45 degrees to the legs, the widest part should face out (down)
2. Form the resistor to attach to the outer 2 legs and to be bend back on itself
3. Pre-tin the resistor and sensor legs then solder, use a croc clip + tweezers jig to hold (will add photos later)
4. Strip and solder the wire to the legs, don't linger or you'll melt the resistor off
5. Put the heat shrink on the middle leg and slide up close to the hall sensor, heat to shrink (without melting the solder)
6. Fit the lot into the holder and bend the hall sensor 90 degrees, bend the resistor down flush with the holder.
7. Glue the hall sensor and wires with epoxy at both ends and the resistor, use minimal amounts to ensure the epoxy does not protrude too far. Arrange something to hold it in place while the epoxy hardens, or consider super glue initially.
IMG_2255s.JPG
initial forming
IMG_2255s.JPG (45.1 KiB) Viewed 5376 times
IMG_2256s.JPG
Finished assembly
IMG_2256s.JPG (42.82 KiB) Viewed 5376 times
Testing I have attached an LED across the resistor (12V in and output) and pushed in a bit of wire with the end bent a little to catch the drive. The wire is twiddled and the led should flash 4 times per rotation, it will keep its state when you stop so the led will stay on or off depending on where it is. Turn the dash around and view the needle while spinning the wire, you should see the needle rise to about 10 or 20mph, it will only work in one direction (clockwise).
IMG_2252s.JPG
Testing
IMG_2252s.JPG (54.69 KiB) Viewed 5376 times
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 23 Mar 2016 08:07 pm

Chris_C it would be useful to know if the pull-up resistor is needed, there might be one in the fuel computer. I'll try and check mine when it comes back. Maybe you could check the 440 one for pull up resistance. It should probably work anyway but its eating up half of the current margin.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

benji1985
Posts: 493
Joined: 30 Oct 2015 06:58 pm
Location: Helston

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by benji1985 » 27 Mar 2016 07:54 am

Hey, please excuse the silly question. What do these do?

Ben

Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 27 Mar 2016 01:25 pm

They create a speed variable pulse for injection fuel systems used from donor cars, typically LH2.4 from the 940 turbo or Renault fp7. The want to know the speed of the car. It would also be useful to measure mpg using an mpguino in a 360 injection. The speedo is basically a spinning magnet that drags the needle ring around against a spring. This picks up the magnet and turns into a pulse.

You can find this in 440 injections or some injection golfs. Later car designs (eg 940) use wheel speed sensors and electronic speedos.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

User avatar
Chris_C
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Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Chris_C » 27 Mar 2016 01:59 pm

Ride_on wrote:Chris_C it would be useful to know if the pull-up resistor is needed,
I'll measure the 400 sensor and let you know 340pw
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12 - NASLR Time 15.7secs
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5
Ex:
'91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

benji1985
Posts: 493
Joined: 30 Oct 2015 06:58 pm
Location: Helston

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by benji1985 » 27 Mar 2016 02:35 pm

Ride_on wrote:They create a speed variable pulse for injection fuel systems used from donor cars, typically LH2.4 from the 940 turbo or Renault fp7. The want to know the speed of the car. It would also be useful to measure mpg using an mpguino in a 360 injection. The speedo is basically a spinning magnet that drags the needle ring around against a spring. This picks up the magnet and turns into a pulse.

You can find this in 440 injections or some injection golfs. Later car designs (eg 940) use wheel speed sensors and electronic speedos.
Ahh I see. That's very clever

Ben

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thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by thododd » 27 Mar 2016 05:14 pm

It could also be used for speed sensitivity for an EPAS install :D

Whos measures mpgs in a 360inj???? .... thats how clinical depression starts

Ride_on
Posts: 2244
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Vehicle Speed Sensors

Post by Ride_on » 27 Mar 2016 10:50 pm

I do it in my 940, taught me enough about the engine mgt to average 40mpg when conditons allow. Not sure what would happen in the stock 360 but I always got better mpg in the 360 than the 940 pre-mpguino. I don't do many miles now so really just for the interest/challenge.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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