Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

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Stav2
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Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by Stav2 » 12 Nov 2009 09:54 pm

As title really.

Ive decided, due to the car being so light and the transmission not being too strong im going to make more power through big revs rather than big torque, and for that im going to need to let the car make good power till 7k+ rather than the usual 5k redblocks usually do, and for that I'll need a lairy cam.

Are B19 and B21 ones interchangable? I know ones with the dizzy on the back are different, but these Ive no idea.

Aso, I dont suppose anybody knows the max lift/duration you can go on a B19 (thats the stock 360 lump isnt it?) before you need to pocket the pistons for clearance?

Thanks :)

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SteveP
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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by SteveP » 12 Nov 2009 11:25 pm

Id've thought so... for example I think the 'K' cam comes out of a B23 out of a 240 and they fit in B200's

Depends on your 360 as to which engine you have. Is this Ali's car, if so it's a B200E. Black cam cover = B200, Silver cam cover = B19. 7k sounds a little optimistic on a B200E+T, since they only have 9mm rods - a nice upgrade would be a B230FK/FT block with 13mm rods and oil squirters. Even then I don't think cams will get you all the way, a K cam will only really pull hard to 6.5k, have you thought about a 16v head? :twisted: 8) :D

Ultimately it depends on what kinda power figures you have in mind!
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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by classicswede » 12 Nov 2009 11:33 pm

For a 360 you can use any red block cam. It is only the 7/900 series that you need them with teh dizzy drive on the back. If you buy a cam for a early B21 now from volvo it will come with the dizzy drive on it.
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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by filthyjohn » 13 Nov 2009 03:37 pm

Results of high revs on 9mm rods:

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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by Stav2 » 20 Nov 2009 01:59 pm

Cheers for the info, didnt realise it had the rubbish robs, damnit :lol:

In that case we are just going to leave the stock engine and see how long it takes to kill it on the manifold adapter I made, and the GT3071, external gate, 3in system, and 600cc inj its now got :lol:
First job is to make it all work and map it though :lol:

Once its dead its time for some better rods and ideally 2.3, but has to keep dizzy in block as no real room on the back...

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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by classicswede » 27 Nov 2009 11:29 am

The silver topengine will rev at 7500 RPM all day long
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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by SteveP » 27 Nov 2009 11:37 am

Wont be making much power up there though!!
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foggyjames
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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by foggyjames » 05 Dec 2009 02:31 am

Bump. I found some answers to my questions in the other thread here!

The concept is very, very sensible (keep the boost down and the revs up), and exactly what I plan to do (15psi on a custom T3 - .63A/R Cosworth hotside and CHRA sits on my shelf...compressor yet to be decided)...but I think you're going to need to work more on the application.

I think you'll need to work on both the exhaust manifold and the head (bigger exhaust valves, at least) to get it to make useful power above 5500rpm. The cam will need to be aftermarket (Enem do a particularly wide range for turbo apps...take a look at the K16 Turbo) at that engine speed...even a factory 'K' grind runs out of puff above 6k. And you're going to need something stronger than the 9mm B200. A 13mm rod engine should be ok to 7500 or so, but I'd probably put a set of H-beams in it, just to be safe. The pistons will be fine at that power level...although given your RPM aspirations, you might want to look at making the rod/stroke ratio more favourable by using a longer rod and shorter piston...which might as well be forged, since you're there anyway! This is all getting a bit spendy, so I guess you could always have a spare late B230 kicking around (£150?) just in case, and see how you get on with the stock bottom end.

You can swap a late B230 to a block-mount dizzy easily BTW...just swap in a 240 or 360 aux shaft, and off you go. Personally, I'd ditch it and run coil packs. You're on MS anyway, right? You'll pick up a lot of spark power that way.

Personally, I'd do "mk1" and shoot for 250bhp at say 5500-6000rpm (which the B200 should be safely capable of, with good mapping, at 10-15psi with that turbo), then (if you decide you want more) be working on "mk2" (300-350bhp at 7krpm...rods, big-valve head, cam, tubular manifold, etc) in the meantime. The precise numbers for "mk2" there are kinda bench-raced, as most people put them in agricultural 2/7/900s, where loads of torque is not an issue. For example, my housemate's 740 runs up to 2 Bar of boost on a T3/T4 hybrid, but with a 6200rpm limiter...and that's a pretty standard-issue Turbobricks concept...trading bottom end strength against the lack of a good flowing head.

I'll be very interested to hear how you get on with it.

cheers

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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by Fuse » 05 Dec 2009 12:51 pm

filthyjohn wrote:Results of high revs on 9mm rods:
Stav2 wrote:Cheers for the info, didnt realise it had the rubbish robs, damnit :lol:
No it doesn't have... B200 has weaker 9mm rods, B19 is different.

B19 has "M" -rods which are even a bit stronger than the later model 13mm B2x0 rods so that wouldn't be a problem in this case.

But if your engine is B200 then it has the weaker rods.
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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by foggyjames » 05 Dec 2009 01:47 pm

I'm pretty sure Stav-daddy has a B200. I can't remember which right now, but one of the cam manufacturers only lists their products as fitting B21s, or something like that...that might be the origin on the question.

cheers

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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by Stav2 » 07 Dec 2009 01:34 pm

Yeah, B200 it seems. Ill run it as it is till I kill it then....
foggyjames wrote:Stav-daddy
Eh?! :?: :?

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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by foggyjames » 07 Dec 2009 01:58 pm

Like pimp-daddy, but with added Stav! :lol:

cheers

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Re: Are B19 and B21 camshafts interchangable?

Post by volvosneverdie » 07 Dec 2009 02:52 pm

Collins English Dictionary wrote: Stav-daddy- A person of moderate awesomness. Similar to a Pimp (U.S. Slang). Also similar to 1980's Brittish pro wrestler Big Daddy. note- in coolness only, not in size or wrestling ability.
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