Spark plug issue - any ideas?

[arpi2390]

As said before, if the carb adjustment dosen't work , then it must be the ignition. The Black substance on the spark plugs is the result of unburned fuel.Unburned fuel happens in two cases(usualy it's a combinations of the 2 factors): either the fuel mixture is to rich , or the spark is to weak to egnite the fuel properly. If the mixture is to rich, adjust the carb, if the spark is to weak there are several posibilities: bad sparkplugs(probably not because you tried 2 sets), bad sparkwires(i forgot the word- fise in romana), bad dizzycap or dizzy rotor.The wires you can check withe an ohmmeter, the dizzy cap should be clead inside without any green substance on the conectors and without any cracks-examine it thoroughly, and the rotor arm should also be clean - you can do the cleaning with sandpaper- the smother, the beter.There is another posibility, this is the worst case:the ignition computer (if you don't have the model with contact breakers), if this fails in the way that the spark isn't in the right time , than what's happening to you could be a simptom.If you have contact breakers , adjusting and cleaning them is the first thing you should do.

By the way, please post your problems on the romanian forums to , me and alf are the only ones active on the 300 section and it's lonely...

Thanks for that Kalyyyyyy as I said I think the car is doing really well now. It was a problem of over fueling, to much fuel was getting into the chamber, now that I adjusted the mixture it's working fine. Spark plugs are good, HT leads (fisele) could be changed and I will change them. I will wait and see how it turns out and if the car keeps working well. As for the dizzy I've cleaned it.
This might come as a shock to other users here but the dizzy by what I know of has never been changed since the car has been in the family (thats about 12-13 years), neither the rotor arm or cap...
Now temps are rising here so I don't think I will be having any problems with the car from now on as the temps are above 0 C.

As for the Romanian forum I'm a member and I do tend to write sometimes there too but I asked here first because I knew that someone would come with advice fast
But from now on I will try to be more active in the 300 series section too maybe I can give advice as now I know a few things

As for my question can anybody tell me how can I access those fuel lines from above? (those near the gas tank)
I will be taking the car on tuesday to a garage where I can get under it but I would prefer to see it from above before getting under it.

P.S. There are a lot of 300 series cars in Romania, a lot more than 200 series, only in my town I've spotted about 5-6 that are local and it's not a big town

[volvodspec]

well i'm sory mate but with plugs that are that wet overfuelling cannot be solved simply by adjusting your mixture, that's just covering up some symptomes. keep an eye on your fuel consumption, i bet it is way too high atm!!

it's a sisac solex so could also be a leaking float.

b200k 360's should be able to do 7liters per 100km easaly.

[arpi2390]

well i'm sory mate but with plugs that are that wet overfuelling cannot be solved simply by adjusting your mixture, that's just covering up some symptomes. keep an eye on your fuel consumption, i bet it is way too high atm!!

it's a sisac solex so could also be a leaking float.

b200k 360's should be able to do 7liters per 100km easaly.

Well if the normal consumption is 7 liters than this car hasn't really been working well for a long time, because since I've been driving it, that's about one and a half years now, which isn't that much but since than the car has been drinking about 10 l per 100 km or above with my driving... and as I remember it always had this consumption but maybe it's time for a carb rebuild.
Yes it is a Solex Cisac. Tomorrow I'm taking it to a garage and I hope I will have time to look at the carb too with a mechanic.
I'm really waiting for better weather (Spring) because than I can start working on the car a bit. I'll be changing front and rear shocks, fuel lines and the carb then.
The car has around 148000 km and not a lot has been changed on it. So it's just about time to make the car a little younger
I will be checking the consumption just after I deal with the fuel leak as now it can drink 10 l in 15-20 km

I've been searching everywhere if where I can get access to the fuel lines in the back, there's nothing in the green books on the forum, nothing in VADIS and I don't want to take out one of those rubber things to find out that it wasn't the good one because I guess they seal good now and if I take it off and put it back it won't seal that good.

Thanks for the replys guys you are helping me a lot

Cheers,
Arpi

Edit: BTW may I add that I was getting those plugs that black when it was -10-15ish temps here, couldn't it have been that fuel wasn't mixing to well with air at that temperature? I was thinking that it might not have mixed that well and the petrol wasn't entering as a gas mixture in the chamber, maybe in more of a liquid form. But I will check out the carb

[kalyyyyyy]

Your theory isn't that bad, the one about bad mixture in cold weather, but that's the reason why on the air filter box you have an automatic switch between air from autside the car (normal ambient temperature air) and air from near the exhaust maniford(hot air when the air is up to temperature).Giving thought that the switch works kind'ov like a thermostat it could be broken, you should ckeck it.

I can't help you muck with the fuel leak, but i can tell you that on my car there are a few rubber fuel lines accesable from underneath the car, but that dosen't help you much because i have the injection model so it might be a different setup than yours.

With the fuel consumption, mine gets about 7, 7 and 1/2 at constant speed of 110-120, not much less at 90.Probably the carb version should have a bigger consumption but thats a question ment for carb version owners.I can tell you though that this engine is very sensitive to driving behaviour, if i drive with many breaks and accelerations and not tending to a constant speed it eats a lot of fuel.This fact is also demonstrated by the town consumption which is between 11 and 15 in the summer and about 18-20 this winter.

[arpi2390]

Well the theory that I had is that when the engine block is at about -10 degrees Celsius and the fuel entered it being at an even lower temperature -11-12 C on the start up, when the engine first cranked over (lets say the car was left over the night and you start it up in the morning in about -15 C) the cold fuel with the cold air just wouldn't mix that well and not all of the fuel would ignite and burn. The problem being that there was too much fuel getting in maybe not enough air.
So a part of the leftover carbon would just end up on the spark plugs and under a short period rendering them useless (something that can be helped with a good cleaning).
That's my theory and I'm no way a mechanic, not even close to one, so this might not even be close to reality

But as soon as I will have time and money for it I will change the leads, spark plugs, dizzy cap and rotor just to be sure and I will check out the carb.

Thanks Kalyyyyyy for the photos, I think the underside of the car is similar to that of an injection type but there is a fuel pump at the tank in the injection one, isn't there?
As for the last picture I don't think the leak is there because the tank hasn't really had even a half load of petrol since December, and since I've noticed that I'm losing fuel I've just had it after the second line on the fuel gauge so that I wouldn't lose to much fuel

Tomorrow I'm going to get under the car and I will see what the problem is and hopefully I can fix it.

Thanks again for your help guys şi îti mulţumesc şi ţie Kalyyyyyy încă o dată pentru ajutor!

[volvodspec]

under the rear set there should be a round plate, remove it and take out the floater (turn left a little bit untill it pops loose)
i bet its the thinner return fuel line that leaks. same story in enginebay

10 to 100km; ok either you have a reasonable heavy foot or the carb and engine needs a service. i've worked on a b200k 360, full service + carb rebuild and it went instantly to 7l 100km; 120kmh on highway

[arpi2390]

under the rear set there should be a round plate, remove it and take out the floater (turn left a little bit untill it pops loose)
i bet its the thinner return fuel line that leaks. same story in enginebay

10 to 100km; ok either you have a reasonable heavy foot or the carb and engine needs a service. i've worked on a b200k 360, full service + carb rebuild and it went instantly to 7l 100km; 120kmh on highway

Well that was my guess to that the return line is leaking because when I spotted that the leak was in the end somewhere near the tank I had the engine running for about 10 minutes and after that I revved it to 4000-4500 rpm a few times and than I saw that there was petrol under the car at the back end.
So I guessed that at higher revs the pump pumps a lot more fuel which is sent back to the tank hence more fuel leaked. Again I'm guessing things because I don't have a lot of experience but it would make sense, wouldn't it?

Under the rear seat all I remember that there is on the right side of the car (if sitting forward) a black thing from which wires come out, would that be what I'm looking for? The wires all look like electrical wires.
The only thing is that that looks sealed up well, it's glued in or something. As from what I've read I think I can get to those fuel lines from underneath too.

As for the 10/100 - I do have a really heavy foot I have to add...but the carb and engine does need a good service. With my brothers V40 I also always get about 1-1,5 liter more fuel used under 100 km than he does, I like to use the throttle a lot...
(...and yes we are a Volvo-fan family )

Cheers,
Arpi

[volvodspec]

yep that's the thing! you do need to get it out at that place, on a injection this is the same story. the only fuel lines that are accessable from underneath are those at the fuel pump

it's glued into place, but with a flat screwdriver you should be able to pop it loose without too much effort.

[arpi2390]

Ah, ok Thanks for that!
So that is the only way I can get to them. Good to know. Hope it isn't to hard to reach the lines and check them.
You said something about the return line being thinner, do you know by any chance what size it is? (in metric - or imperial only than I'll have to convert it )
This forum is amazingly good, people are so helpful thank you all again!!!
I hope I haven't been bothering you guys too much

...and please excuse my english, I have to work on that a bit too and on my mechanical skills...

Cheers,
Arpi

[nomead]

No excess carbon buildup here in Finland, starting with temperatures down to -20C, though this is on a B14... And I actually need to run with plenty of choke for the first kilometer or so, because otherwise it will just stop. So it has to be something else that causes the buildup. Of course if the mixture isn't right even when running a warm engine, there will be extra carbon quite fast...

[arpi2390]

Well it seams I'm out of luck...
I noticed before that I was losing a little oil at the front of the engine but now when I went to the garage we where checking out the back end of the car, the lines from underneath and there was no leak anywhere near the tank or along the lines but there was a lot of oil on the clutch housing so the mechanic told me that that could be a serious problem there...the oil can get onto the clutch and so on...
Ok, oil near the clutch - has to be fixed...noted
No petrol leaking near the tank - noted...where the hell does my petrol go to then?
We got out from underneath the car and to the horror of both of us we saw that there was big oil spot on the floor just under the engine...smelled it, it was oil not petrol.
So went on to the engine bay to check the oil level...it was well above the maximum line, it was almost double that.
Tried to light the oil that was on the stick...and you can guess the rest...
So petrol in the oil...oil leaking both in front and the back of the engine...engine will be taken apart as soon as the weather gets better (probably around the end of February beginning of March)...no idea how the petrol is getting in the oil...

...and to my joy I can spend more money than the car actually is worth on the market...

Because the clutch needs a changing so if the engine is already in parts and the prop is out of its place the clutch can be changed...head gaskets...other gaskets and the radial shaft seals (which I'm guessing that isn't the correct term ) and I already have a set of front and back shocks

Now if somebody will rob a bank for me I will be very thankful

Cheers,
Arpi

[kalyyyyyy]

The only way fuel gets into the oil is at the fuel pump, this is aplicable at any mechanical fuel pump for carbs. The pump should be in the left side of the engine(mine has a patch of steel there) and it's very accesable. take it of and see what you can change on it (probably the rubber gasket inside), if you want more info about this go to dacia forum, it's a common problem(like anything else on dacia), but it's well explayned.

Why are you changing the cluch? These things last forever, mine has the original one(450000) and still goes well...I advise you to buy the cluch after you get to it and check it, you might have a nice surprise that it's in a great shape and it's slips only because of the oil that gets on it.

You should also change the oil and oil filter ofcourse after you've fixed the fuelpump problem, and don't run the motor with the oil and fuel mixture to much, it's not a great lubrication and you could damage it badly.

[arpi2390]

Wow!
Really? Petrol can be getting in from the fuel pump? Because the fuel pump has just been recently taken of and put back.
But the pump is working great. I know where the pump is. And it has a little lever which goes into the engine block which operates it, so you are saying that petrol could be going in there?
That was one of my initial thought too but as the pump was working great I didn't bother. Could you explain how it could be leaking in and what can I do to it?

Thanks Kalyyyyyy, this way atleast maybe I can reduce the amount of petrol leaking away and after an oil change maybe the engine wont leak so much oil out. Because now the oil isn't that consistent because it's full of petrol.

Hmm, hmm...this could be an idea

[arpi2390]

So any ideas on the mechanical pump being the culprit here?
The engine is running really good now, haven't had any problems with the spark plugs but my consumption is horrible...given the leak because the engine isn't drinking more than it should.
I mean the engine might be drinking it only in the wrong place...
I haven't driven it too much since I noticed that I have petrol in the oil but that kind of beats the purpose of a car, it should be driven...

Cheers,
Arpi

[Ride_on]

Fuel leaking at back - Didn't read everything in detail already posted but just to say the rubber fuel pipe links over the torque tube are prone to leaking after 10 years or so (Carb models only).

They are hard to get at, so go in under the back seat and detach them from the top of the tank and attach some string, then go under the car and pull the fuel pipes from over the torque tube, they go down the side of the transmission tunnel into the chassis box section that leads to the engine bay. You should be able to get at the rubber link now and will be much easier to replace. You need to get the right diameter replacement pipe and suitable hose clips. Replace the pipes and clips at the tank aswell.

When done pull the string back from the inside to thread the pipes up over the torque tube and tank.

Cold running - The car should run well and reliably in the cold, although winters here only go down to -5C, but I've done alot of motorway driving in a B200K at that temp and can say that the engine needs to be well serviced. Engines that havn't been serviced will have problems. Suggestions + info;

Make sure ignition is all very clean and change leads if necessary. Check in total darkness and look for glowing, particularly where HT leads touch other parts. Remove coil from renix unit and clean the back of it. Use white spirit or petrol for cleaning.

Carb - check breathers for blockages and tight fitting (soft) pipes, also make sure flame trap is not blocked. Mixture and idle need to be adjusted with appropriate equipment. If there are breather (crank case ventilation) problems the mixture can be set incorrectly and be too rich when running. A tell tale for rich running is black smoke with the choke out just enough to make the engine run.

Cold running air mixture flap is important for carb icing, but should not affect normal mixture (I think). If it not working a motorway journey will cause it to start running badly after 20 mins or so. Usually it will still tick over and run(although that experience was in a 1.4).

Carb heating - The inlet manifold is heated by the cooling system, it should feel hot. There is also a small electrical heater near the mixture screw.

In summary the B200K 360 is THE most reliable car I have ever driven, but some of them can suffer, usually from not been driven enough and certainly if neglected. I never had any problem with my solex carb and never really had to adjust it even for tick over. Cold start was always perfect and barely needed the choke. It once didn't start because the coil was dirty, but pulling a plug lead and cranking with it near some metal (to check the spark) allowed the voltage to build up and seemed to clear it. Most of the problems are from experience of repairing and servicing other less used cars (around 10). I found that I could bring all 360s up to the same standard with simple cleaning and servicing.