B19 + B200E + turbo

Post by **A M R** » 11 Nov 2006 01:35 am

ah sorry mate, point taken. hope i didnt leave a bad impression on you...

ive heard of these r5 gtt's blowing up and the rs turbos - whats this stupid stuff that people do you talk about?

i should be getting off to bed now its kinda late. cheers mate.

Post by **pettaw** » 11 Nov 2006 02:53 am

A M R wrote: ive heard of these r5 gtt's blowing up and the rs turbos - whats this stupid stuff that people do you talk about?

If I might answer on behalf of James, its called the 'stick it in' method. ie: just shovel the engine in, with whatever engine management systems you can find, and then turn up the boost as high as you like. No attention is paid to whether the fuelling or ignition maps can actually handle that kind of boost pressure.

Result is a very broken engine and a bad reputation. Actually that's why Megasquirt had/has a bad reputation in some circles. People expect it to act like a stock management system, whereas you need to treat it like you're setting it up from scratch. That means time, effort and ultimately money to get dyno time. James, £150 is a completely conservative figure. It won't even buy you the megasquirt kit to start with. Realistcally you're gonna need at least double that price, by the time you've paid for the wideband O2 sensor, that you're gonna need if you want to tune it properly (there are some people who can work out fuelling with a narrowband O2 sensor, but they're very clever indeed and its a dangerous game involving lots of complicated maths) and all the other sensors and wiring. That's without including dyno time in which to tune it.

You can get away without dyno time for fuelling. You really can't get away without dyno time for ignition, and its ignition where you're gonna make or lose your power. That's why I don't recommend people start going down the megasquirt route without knowing exactly what they're getting into. IMO you're far better off trying to adapt the stock system, providing you're gonna run reasonably stock levels of boost. Otherwise you're gonna be looking down some sort of custom route, whether it be chipping the stock system etc.

Hope that helps.

Post by **Fuse** » 11 Nov 2006 10:34 am

A M R wrote: you do have a FPR in your car (fuel pressure regulator)

Yeah sorry I was bit unclear.

Yeah I have the stock FPR in. But no adjustable or progressive one.

Post by **volvorsport** » 11 Nov 2006 10:35 am

well , all points valid , the easiest solution is to fit the engine, piggyback the ecu with some bigger injectors , leave your car with an expert for the day .

youll be short £5-600 , but with a very good and reliable car .

sorry if its not the cheapest method

Website · Post by **antiekeradio** » 11 Nov 2006 12:39 pm

how hard is it to start with an ignition map equivalent to stock renix ignition for the engine type??

some manuals contain the curves, you might be able to copy those into the spark maps??

Post by **jtbo** » 11 Nov 2006 06:12 pm

I had stock ignition map put in where from I started to modify it as I have K-cam it needed bit adjusting to get more power out from it, but it did work with that map better than with renix and there was more power even without adjusting it.

I think that Fuse's car got even stock renix, if I don't remember wrong, B19 has low CR too(?) so it is bit more forgiving.

I think that best system is what does the job and is most affordable, if you can get working tuned carb setup cheap it is ok, but at least in here finding carbs is quite difficult and even more difficult is to find carbs that are not worn, prices are quite high too so that is why it is not very good choice. Maybe in your are situation is different, but here carb manifold is around 100€ and you can have injection manifold + injectors + all parts connected cheaper than 100€.

Post by **Fuse** » 11 Nov 2006 07:09 pm

jtbo wrote: I think that Fuse's car got even stock renix, if I don't remember wrong, B19 has low CR too(?) so it is bit more forgiving.

Hole on the bellhousing has been widened and sensor for Renix has been moved a bit to get advance lower.

On GL I can't see any visible mods, except the vac line is disconnected.

Post by **jtbo** » 11 Nov 2006 07:41 pm

Fuse wrote:
jtbo wrote: I think that Fuse's car got even stock renix, if I don't remember wrong, B19 has low CR too(?) so it is bit more forgiving.
Hole on the bellhousing has been widened and sensor for Renix has been moved a bit to get advance lower.

On GL I can't see any visible mods, except the vac line is disconnected.

That sensor trick is not giving many degrees, I think. So next summer we can read from your megasquirt installation?

Post by ch » 11 Nov 2006 08:36 pm

volvorsport wrote:well , all points valid , the easiest solution is to fit the engine, piggyback the ecu with some bigger injectors , leave your car with an expert for the day .

youll be short £5-600 , but with a very good and reliable car .

sorry if its not the cheapest method

so I'll leave b19 engine block and but a b200e head on it?

Post by **foggyjames** » 11 Nov 2006 10:57 pm

No worries A M R...all is cool

No need to change the head...just use the B200E inlet manifold - it carries the injector holes.

I agree with Dave - if you've got the cash, fit something adjustable, and get someone who knows what they're doing to adjust it. Simon Norris (of 840hp Evo fame) takes his chassis to another company - he just builds the engines. I'd hate to think we were in a position where people thought they had to DIY everything

Most 'modifiers' of more modern cars simple choose what they want, then pay someone else to do the work.

My £150 figure was based on the price I've seen for an assembled kit from the US ($300). You're totally right that that doesn't include the (notable) costs required to actually get it working - like a wideband and wiring loom, ancillaries.

When all is said and done, neither the B19 nor B200 standard fuel and ignition systems will cope with (much) boost. Whether you piggyback what's there already, fit an alternative factory system (LH2.4 from a B200ET 740 Turbo or B200FT 940 Turbo), or go fully programmable aftermarket, you'll need to do 'something' other than stock.

cheers

James

Post by ch » 12 Nov 2006 03:30 pm

I was thinking that if I get the engine running mayby I will buy VEMS

Post by **foggyjames** » 12 Nov 2006 10:20 pm

That sounds like an excellent idea - VEMS is pretty good value too, looking at it.

cheers

James

Post by **Ali** » 13 Nov 2006 11:23 am

Damn, I need the wiring diagram for that extra injector controller! Make a nice cheap fix! lol

Post by **SteveP** » 13 Nov 2006 11:26 am

Ali wrote:Damn, I need the wiring diagram for that extra injector controller! Make a nice cheap fix! lol

You'll never learn

Post by **Ali** » 13 Nov 2006 12:43 pm

Haha I knew you'd say that, if there's a shortcut you'll guarantee I want to take it lol