Firing order for injectors

[alf]

Hi guys. After almost a year, i managed to pull togheter all the bits and pieces and rebuild my b200 e engine. I dropped in new piston rings, rod bearing shells, gaskets, valve stem. Ok, but i`ve made a mistake: i forgot to mark each injector jack when i took them off. Now, obviously it won`t start. Fuel pump is woking, ingnition the same, spark is present on each ht lead. I pulled off all the injector jacks and i feed manually each injector with - and + while the ignition key was on start position. And it started for 10 sec yayyy .
I look in older threads but i didn`t find if there is a precise order or it does not matter how i connect the injectors. Someone said that they fire all in the same time - but why, if 2 and 3 pistons are up and 1 and 4 are down?
I forgot to mention that i`we connected 4 bulbs to eack injector jack and while the engine was cranking they lite up. But i didn`t catch myself if they light up two by two or all for toghether.
Thanks .

please notice my orange painted injectors:



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[Chris_C]

Batch firing (all injectors at the same time) was a pretty common thing late 80's into the 90's. My F7R does it too.

To answer your main question, yes, they all fire at the same time, no it doesn't matter how you wire them. When my B200 was playing up, I pulled the injectors out and using a health and safety method held the injector rail up in the air and fired them across the block, all 4 squirted the petrol substitute at the same time!

[alf]

Thank you Chris! Are you sure 100 %?
Is it possible to mount the ignition sensor from the clutch bellhousing the wrong way? Now the wires go toward the back of the car, is it ok?
Seems like tomorrow is gonna be a good day, for science.

[Chris_C]

100% they fire at the same time, so as long as you havn't changed the positions of wires in any of the plugs you will be fine.

Crank sensor, I can't find any photos and don't have a B200 at the moment, so can't help I'm afraid, from memory though it will not fit the wrong way around, the sensor isn't central to the fixing brackets?

If you have lights, then I would suspect you are ok. Next thing to try is a compression test maybe, are the crank, cam and distributor definately timed correctly?

[Nimminz]

yep, all fire same time

Crank position sensor wire points towards back of car on mine

Check that you've got all the HT leads right, are they meant to cross on the closest two spark plugs? i can't see where they go on the distributor on your photos but on my car they follow the same line through the guides but don't cross. Hope that makes sense :/

[alf]

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Today i had a full day,but i took some pics in order to see how are the ht leads set.

[alf]

The beast is alive!
Cold start injector and thermal time switch weren`t connected, and after having them jacked, the engine started with no effort.
I planned a session of 20 min at 2000 rpm, but i didn`t have the opportunity- the pulley attached to the front end of the crankshaft wobbles like hell. Hhy? The screw was tight, the pin was inserted in the pulley and the mating surfaces were clean.
I wish i could give you a beer, to you and the guys from 300power.com.

[pettaw]

If the crank pulley is going back and forth then its knacked I'm afraid. Its fancy name is 'harmonic balancer.' If you look closely you'll see its not actually a solid pulley, but two pulleys pressed together with a rubber donut between them. Its done to damp the vibrations from the crank pulley. Trouble is that the rubber perishes with time and then the two metal pieces either shift or slip slightly. Its worse for 240 owners with points and condenser ignition who have to set their timings by the timing mark on that front pulley. If it slips round a tad, you think you're running 12 degrees or whatever and you 're actually running something completely different.

Anyways long way of saying you need a new pulley

HTH

[alf]

Thanks Pettaw, your videos on youtube are excellent.
Tomorrow i`ll try to see if i can swap my pulley with the one which is mounted on my spare engine, B19 from 1984. If, not...i don`t know. By the way, how it`s possible to fail sitting? Last time when the engine ran was almost 11 month ago, and from what i can remeber back then it was fine.
All the best.

[foggyjames]

Are you sure it's on straight? If so, it must have got damaged somehow..corrosion?

It's impossible to do sequential ignition or injection without a cam sensor...that's the acid test

cheers

James

[alf]

It`s me...again. I took some pictures to see what i have in mind: convert a pulley from B 19- there are two sepparate parts in order to fit on a B200 crank.



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James, both pulley and the end of the crank are clean, straight and without any rust. From the last november the pulley has been "living" in my trunk.

ps: is it okay or I MUST find a B 200 pulley? is there a chance to broke something? why B 19 didn`t had that harmonic balancer and the engine ran smooth and clean?

[foggyjames]

I've heard that the crank is externally balanced using the pulley on a B200, so putting the B19 one on might cause problems...but I'm tempted to suggest that's a load of rubbish, to be honest. What I've not got a straight answer to is whether or not you can swap them safely, or if an engine needs its "own" pulley. I'm sure you must be able to swap them, and the balancing on the pulleys is just for the pulley itself.

I have several B200/230 pulleys here, if you're willing to pay for the postage. They're not light!

I'd probably run with the B19 one, as long as the offset (i.e. belt alignment) is correct.

cheers

James

[alf]

Thank you James, you are too kind but i found out what was wrong. ME!
When i have dismantled the engine apart, i though i`ve lost the locking pin from the big pulley, so i made one from a screw (with my grinder).
But, the locking pin is in fact one piece with the crank distribution wheel (from one side). So, each time when i have tried to mount the pulley, those two pins kept hitting one against each other, causing that terrible vobbling.
So i`m happy, the engine runs, i have to solve the mot and insurance issues,but in the next spring.
Rock on!

[Fuse]

Some trivial info about the crank differencies for those who might be interested.

B2XX -series engines have eight counter balances on the crank and the crank is cast one. Older B2X engines have only four counter balances but the crank is stronger, forged steel. Also one major difference between these engines is that b2xx -series ones are so called "low friction" engines. Volvo came up with the "great idea" of making the B2xx -series engines piston guided instead of crank guided. This means that the con rod is guided/centered from the piston end and there's a notable side clearance at the crank end of the con rod bearings. Normally clearances at the crank end of the con rod are made as tight as possible and the con rod is guided/centered from the crank.

This piston guided -setup works very well with the high revving race engines (idea was probably copied from racing scene) and does infact lower friction losses in those but it didn't turn out to be as good with the redblocks where the torque comes at rather low revs.. Problem with this kind of setup is that if the crank get's any play or vibration it will cause the con rods to fail/bend very quickly because of the rather large side clearances at the crank end of the con rod (this is also one of the main reasons why Volvo switched back to thicker con rods with the b2xx -series engines also after year -90 and switched to larger big end bearings, to add more security factor). This is also the reason why there's a damper fitted at the b2xx -series engines at the crank pulley. It's there to minimize all the possible vibrations of the crank.

But even so, many people have even used aluminium crank pulleys with b2xx -series cranks without any problems so I think it's not as big of a problem in the reality in normal use.

[alf]

Thanks Fuse and thank all of you guys for your help.
i`m back with a new problem: no.4 cylinder(near the clutch) is not working. i`ve already replaced few sparkplugs, ht lead, injector, the same result. The head was mounted ok, with torque key, in stages. The engine start very easy, it runs with a little shake but if i try to reww it, it hesitates and after that it gains rpms (obvioussly, since it`s working on 3 cylinders).
I`ll try to borrow a gauge which is used to measure the pressure inside the cylinder, but first i have a question.
I know that the pistons work in pairs: 1-4 and 2-3. What is the correct method to set up the distribution? No 1 cylinder (near the radiator) must be up? I didn`t ckecked that then i dropped in the belt, i was looking only at the markins on the belt on the wheels- camshaft, ignition, crank. Should i turn the crank 360 degrees?
Someting i did was wrong, i know.