Bjorn - '85 Vario making noises

B14, B172, B19/200, D16 engine, ignition, cooling, fuel & exhaust system, gearbox, variomatic, final drive... | Tuning: engine swaps, welded diff, clutch upgrades...
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mac
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Location: Needham Market U.K.

Re: Variomatic vacuum valve - no overdrive

Post by mac » 23 Jun 2012 02:15 pm

Correct clip already selected!

Mac.
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.

macplaxton
Posts: 3283
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: Variomatic vacuum valve - no overdrive

Post by macplaxton » 23 Jun 2012 02:18 pm

Whistle: check all lube.

Rise in revs: Guessing mixture, it should be more or less the same regardless of position. Check no air leaks (vacuum tubing) first, before diving into carb.
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

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S10NPH
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by S10NPH » 01 Jul 2012 02:55 pm

Hi

Well this weekend we decided to see if we could make the car run even better and quieter, so we replaced the spark plugs with the correct ones for the car, and decided to sort out the idle speed. The timing light confirmed that it was idling at about 1150rpm, which is much too high. Unfortunately, the car then stopped triggering the timing light and we could only get it to work intermittently. It works perfectly on the other car! We cleaned up the ignition leads which were very corroded and will need replacing (but my local motor parts places didn't have any in stock), and the ignition connector on the renix was extremely rusty. We cleaned it up, but is this something I should be worried about?

We've lowered the engine speed by ear anyway, but as the timing light won't work, I can't tell what it's actually running. I'm hoping that new leads will solve this, but it's a very irritating mystery as it was working fine for about 5 minutes before giving up!

I also noticed that the multimeter wasn't showing a perfect earth on the tachometric relay, reading about 3 on the 20ohm setting. We cleaned up all the earths around the throttle switch and the battery, and that brought the earth reading down to about 0.9, which is still not perfect. Is this still a high reading?

We then decided to go and have a poke around the belts and pulleys. I know it's a disgrace that I have owned the car since last August and have never seen the belts, but in my defence, I only bought axle stands a few weeks ago.

Anyway, I am pleased to report that the roflex belts are fine, and the pulleys look very shiny.

I tried to measure the secondary pulley gap to see if they need adjusting, but I just can't work out where I should be measuring. I was measuring (I think) the smaller square on this picture which was about 1.5mm, but should it be the bigger square?
Image

Here are a few more pictures:
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1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

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nvdw
Posts: 199
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Location: Glass City, NL

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by nvdw » 01 Jul 2012 08:23 pm

1.5 mm is a good value. What surprises me however is this:

Image

Was it already like this? This is how it should be:

Image

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S10NPH
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Joined: 23 Sep 2008 09:52 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by S10NPH » 01 Jul 2012 09:32 pm

Hmm, that's interesting. Could it be anything to do with the fact that I have Roflex belts on my car, as this thread discusses: http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/v ... th#p104937

Certainly, it seems that my car is adjusted so that the primary and secondary pulleys are as close together as possible.
1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

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nvdw
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Location: Glass City, NL

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by nvdw » 02 Jul 2012 06:25 pm

To get it all clear, what I mean is that you seem to miss the washer (the 'Magdeburger hemisphere' as I call it ;)) and that the locking nut isn't tightened.
S10NPH wrote:Certainly, it seems that my car is adjusted so that the primary and secondary pulleys are as close together as possible.
That is correct. Every time you need to re-tighten the belts, you increase the distance between the primary and secondary transmission, until you reach the point when there's no more thread left to do so - then it's time to order new belts :)

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S10NPH
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by S10NPH » 03 Jul 2012 08:55 am

Oh I see - I thought you meant the distance between the primary and secondary pulleys was a problem! I'll have a look if the washer is there over the weekend (you can't quite see from that picture and I can't honestly remember) and I'll tighten the locking nut. It was like that when I got to it, I haven't touched it.
1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

User avatar
S10NPH
Posts: 461
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 09:52 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by S10NPH » 06 Jul 2012 05:12 pm

Well the rain stopped for long enough this afternoon for me to get the car back on axle stands and to have a look at the washer and nut. The washer is indeed there:
Image

And I have properly tightened the locking nut:
Image

I also took the opportunity of making a video of the belts:
http://youtu.be/YHlGM6P8IA8
Incidentally, there are two noises on the video I'd like to know what they might be, the first is a 'fart' after starting (at 13 and 17 seconds), and also a metallic 'twang' when drive is selected (at 24 seconds). Are these at all normal?!
1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

macplaxton
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by macplaxton » 06 Jul 2012 06:24 pm

The fart sounds like the starter motor pinion gear.

The twang is odd, not a clue.

There's another rubbing noise that's in the mix, not sure if it's just the cold belts. :?
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

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mac
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Location: Needham Market U.K.

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by mac » 06 Jul 2012 07:19 pm

Definitely concur with Rich - the "fart" is the starter pinion running down after disengagement,
Needs a good clean. Possible that slight wear in f/wheel or pinion teeth is "holding on" to pinion
A fraction too long.

"twang" - very odd - it's obviously something touching another rotating something. OK, logic - it
happens when you engage drive, therefore when the primary cross shaft collar moves to engage
- parking pawl "bouncing" - trouble is it seems to happen before any rotational movement occurs.
Would be usefull to know where noise is coming from (prop/primary/secondary).

Other noises- the whine is the "normal" bit - the scraping could be cold belt noise but I would be
much happier to know that secondary oil level was ok - and that driveshafts and read wheel
bearings were not running dry. Also check that sides of belts (drive faces) don't have contamination
With eg. rust particles from pulley faces.

Mac.
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.

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S10NPH
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by S10NPH » 06 Jul 2012 07:39 pm

Thanks both of you, some useful things for me to check there. I'll see if I can work out where the twang is coming from next time I have a willing volunteer to shift the gear lever.
1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

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mac
Posts: 1403
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 11:02 am
Location: Needham Market U.K.

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by mac » 07 Jul 2012 12:04 pm

Further thought,

Engage drive - gear lever operates micro switch - vac servo engages clutch release bearing -
Gear engaged - lever released - clutch release bearing disengages - and spins down.

Is the "spinning down" the source of the clacking, twang ?.

Mac.
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.

morgan105
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004 07:34 pm
Location: Wirral, UK

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by morgan105 » 11 Jul 2012 12:34 am

The belts are the main cause of the high pitch noise, the newer type belts tend to do this as they have the reinforcement band in them that is right at the sidewall. Original volvo belts have just a raw rubber edge on them and are quieter when running. The newer belts may also not have the exact angle on the sidewall as the originals so not seating exactly in the pulleys. No real problem but are noisy. The belts fitted on yours look as if they were shorter then the original size also, hence hardly any adjustment needed, but they will stretch a bit once a few hundred miles are on them so will need adjusting again.

The twang noise may be from the rear box tail pipe on the exhaust either hitting the rear valance at the rear of the car or rear box main pipe hitting the rear spring if it has not been fitted properly. Could also be one of the rear exhaust rubber hangers has snapped and allowing it to shake to much or pulling it on to the shock or valance. Check by grabbing the tail pipe when it is cold and shake it, you may well find the problem quick enough.

macplaxton
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Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by macplaxton » 11 Jul 2012 01:59 am

Bearing in mind what Morgan105 has said, please get the part numbers from the belts.
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

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S10NPH
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Variomatic pulley gap question

Post by S10NPH » 27 Jul 2012 10:21 pm

I have a tiny update on this thread. I have pinpointed that the 'twang' is coming from either the clutch or the clutch servo.

As for the 'fart', I happened to have a replacement starter motor so I swapped them over (after an enormous amount of cursing to undo the bolts and some very bruised fingers). It now starts brilliantly in about 2 seconds even from cold, and no fart to be heard. Hurrah. I will have a look at the old one sometime and clean it up.

I didn't get a chance to look at the belt part numbers or check the gear oil - BHX was also hogging one of my axle stands for his welding anyway. I will have a go next time. I also discovered a lot of rusty seams on the underside of the chassis in the engine bay, which is a bit worrying. I will apply rust treatment at some point.
1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

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