B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
Hi as alot will know i converted my 360 to a b230fk, its running good and working threw the problems as i go along, the main one i really need to sort now is the over heating problem. Im not running a intercooler atm due to room and it still running standard boost, reason theres no room for a cooler is because im running two big fans dje to the cooling issue, ive tryed running it on about 80 percent coolant but was still the same, at the last drift event i whent to i was going on track twice and then comeing off to let it cool down and that was with no bonnet on, im running the 360 rad as the one on my 940 was anit fucked and dosnt really fit but dont think it should make that much differnce. Its stipp pretty high on the motoway, anyone got any ideas or had this problem?
Cheers
Cheers
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Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
How have you plumped in the turbo to the watercooling systrm?
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
Yea mate, ive been wondering if its cooling the turbo properly
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
Just done something silly while doing a few bits on the car, pulled all the pipes off without lookint were they go properly, think ive got them back as they should go, will post up some pics for help lol
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
Heres a few pics, anyone know if i put them back as they should be lol, remember im useing the 360 rad and header tank
These are the fans, plenty enough air being pushed threw the rad
O im running no thermostat atm and makes no differnce
Cheers
These are the fans, plenty enough air being pushed threw the rad
O im running no thermostat atm and makes no differnce
Cheers
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
The water hose from turbo which you have now plumbed in to the top port of overflow reservoir is originally plumbed with a t-piece in to the hose which goes from the radiator to the lower port of the expansion tank. It's generally not a good thing to plumb anything above the expansion tank (except the original air hose from the top of the radiator) as it very easily creates air locks in the cooling system, especially when it's plumbed "in air". Also the turbo watercooling is designed to work in such way that the water flows through the turbo by the convection even when the engine is shut off, it won't work as designed if other end is in free air.
Turbo water cooling doesn't affect engine or underhood temps otherwise, it's there to cool the bearing housing after you have shut off the engine.
Also I'd install a thermostat at once. Lower temp thermostat if needed, but it's a bad thing not to have a thermostat at all.
Running a redblock engine without a thermostat usually makes things worse temp wise as there is a bypass channel from the thermostat housing to the water pump, which the thermostat closes when opening.
If you don't have a thermostat at all, this bypass channel is always open and quite a large amount of water might not flow through the radiator at all!
Bypass channel and the way it works can be seen at this pic.
If temps still rise when the turbo watercooling is plumbed correctly, you have a thermostat in place and the system is air-free, I'd check the radiator and the water pump as there really aren't any other possibilities left if everything else is in order.
-Marko
Turbo water cooling doesn't affect engine or underhood temps otherwise, it's there to cool the bearing housing after you have shut off the engine.
Also I'd install a thermostat at once. Lower temp thermostat if needed, but it's a bad thing not to have a thermostat at all.
Running a redblock engine without a thermostat usually makes things worse temp wise as there is a bypass channel from the thermostat housing to the water pump, which the thermostat closes when opening.
If you don't have a thermostat at all, this bypass channel is always open and quite a large amount of water might not flow through the radiator at all!
Bypass channel and the way it works can be seen at this pic.
If temps still rise when the turbo watercooling is plumbed correctly, you have a thermostat in place and the system is air-free, I'd check the radiator and the water pump as there really aren't any other possibilities left if everything else is in order.
-Marko
Volvo R-Sport - Equipment for the car enthusiast.
“Buy land, they're not making it anymore” - Mark Twain
"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games." -Ernest Hemingway
“Buy land, they're not making it anymore” - Mark Twain
"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games." -Ernest Hemingway
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
There is nothing special about the B230FK against the 360 cooling. The 940 has Al+plastic rad and the 360 is steel, otherwise same circulation and water pump, with minor addition of the turbo cooling mainly by gravity in the expansion tank. The small 940 rad I have (manual/non-AC) looks about the same area as the 360, see photos about weight comparision. The bigger ones are for AC mainly.
There should be plenty of cooling capacity, the 940 can manage with 1/2 full system, no fan etc, same as the 360 (I've abused both).
Most likely it is a simple problem:
-Not enough air flow - why are you not using the 360 water pump and vicsous fan+cowling?
-Not enough water flow - is the pump broken(damaged blades)? try running the engine warm with the top pipe off the rad and checking there is plenty of water comming out (put a water feed hose in the expansion tank) . Maybe the thermostat was fkd and taking it out completly fkd things in a different way.
There should be plenty of cooling capacity, the 940 can manage with 1/2 full system, no fan etc, same as the 360 (I've abused both).
Most likely it is a simple problem:
-Not enough air flow - why are you not using the 360 water pump and vicsous fan+cowling?
-Not enough water flow - is the pump broken(damaged blades)? try running the engine warm with the top pipe off the rad and checking there is plenty of water comming out (put a water feed hose in the expansion tank) . Maybe the thermostat was fkd and taking it out completly fkd things in a different way.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
thanks for the help guys i realise what i have done now ive now got it plumbed in correct now and took it for a test drive to get a new thermostat and it seemed alot better,
problem is though i fitted the new thermostat and topped it up, ran the car up to temp but the water level didnt drop even though most of the water had come out while fitting the stat, gave all the pipes a good squeeze and got a few air bubbled comeing up into the tank but water hardly whent down atall, temp whent up to over three quaters but nothing, heater matrix and rad were both warmed up, ive no idea, anyone?
cheers
problem is though i fitted the new thermostat and topped it up, ran the car up to temp but the water level didnt drop even though most of the water had come out while fitting the stat, gave all the pipes a good squeeze and got a few air bubbled comeing up into the tank but water hardly whent down atall, temp whent up to over three quaters but nothing, heater matrix and rad were both warmed up, ive no idea, anyone?
cheers
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Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
Disconnect one of the heater hoses, fill with water till the water starts coming out of the hose then push the pipe back on. Fill to top - start engine and then when water starts leaking from hose joint tighten clip. That is a good way that works for me getter air out of the water system.
Where is your intercooler?
Where is your intercooler?
Dai
Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk
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Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk
http://www.classicswede.com
phone/text 07824887160
Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
This probably sounds a stupid question but are you sure you are actually overheating ?
Are you relying only on the dash temp gauge or do you have a thermocouple in the system ?
What symptoms do you have ? - it's not unknown for temp sensor (gauge sensor is separate
from LH sensor) to show overtemp when engine is not really overheating.
Is the overtemp confined to the block/head or is the rad too hot as well ? If the engine
has not had antifreeze changes over the years it's possible the waterways have become silted.
Has the impeller come off the h2o pump shaft ? Forget turbo cooling - lack off won't raise
overall eng. temp by any degree.
These engines really don't have overheating problems - if anything they will run a little cool
even on the hottest of days.
Mac.
Are you relying only on the dash temp gauge or do you have a thermocouple in the system ?
What symptoms do you have ? - it's not unknown for temp sensor (gauge sensor is separate
from LH sensor) to show overtemp when engine is not really overheating.
Is the overtemp confined to the block/head or is the rad too hot as well ? If the engine
has not had antifreeze changes over the years it's possible the waterways have become silted.
Has the impeller come off the h2o pump shaft ? Forget turbo cooling - lack off won't raise
overall eng. temp by any degree.
These engines really don't have overheating problems - if anything they will run a little cool
even on the hottest of days.
Mac.
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
cheers mate will try it, i got told something similar to that to that but with the engine running, but didnt fancy doing it with a hot engine lol, will try it how you said,
not running a cooler yet, once ive sorted the cooling out i will buy some proper fans to mount on the other side of the rad then i will have plenty room to mount a decent size intercooler, i know its not ideal as it is but its running standard boost and seems to run ok atm, hopeing it will be ok for now
cheers
not running a cooler yet, once ive sorted the cooling out i will buy some proper fans to mount on the other side of the rad then i will have plenty room to mount a decent size intercooler, i know its not ideal as it is but its running standard boost and seems to run ok atm, hopeing it will be ok for now
cheers
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
dont sound stupid mac i know what you mean,
it is actually over heating but not every time, the temp gauge dosent seem to be to far out but going to get a after market one to make sure,
had the steam comeing up from the bonnet and water spilling out etc, the rad dose get pretty hot to,
i will get it bleed up proper with the new stat in and if theres no change im going to start looking into the water pump, hopeing its started soon as its costing me a fortune in antifreeze lol
cheers
it is actually over heating but not every time, the temp gauge dosent seem to be to far out but going to get a after market one to make sure,
had the steam comeing up from the bonnet and water spilling out etc, the rad dose get pretty hot to,
i will get it bleed up proper with the new stat in and if theres no change im going to start looking into the water pump, hopeing its started soon as its costing me a fortune in antifreeze lol
cheers
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
And change that turbo water cooling because like I wrote it can cause serious air locks if it's connected like that.
Volvo R-Sport - Equipment for the car enthusiast.
“Buy land, they're not making it anymore” - Mark Twain
"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games." -Ernest Hemingway
“Buy land, they're not making it anymore” - Mark Twain
"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games." -Ernest Hemingway
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
as i said i now have it plumbed in correct now?Fuse wrote:And change that turbo water cooling because like I wrote it can cause serious air locks if it's connected like that.
Re: B230fk converted 360 over heating problem
So the temperature is not consistent? Its rising up under power and dropping at tickover?
If so its definately overheating.
I was thinking about the 360 gauge on a 940 sensor, it probably won't match. The engines run at significantly different temps (87 and 92 (360), possibly enough to register 3/4, an 88 thermostat gives a visibly higher indication on a 940), although I don't know if the gauge is different or the sensor is different so hard to say what way it will go. But thats just on the non-overheating theory.
If it is still over heating, you do not have enough water flow (assuming its rising when the car is moving which should be enough air flow). Definate should check the pump flow by the method I mention above. I wonder can you see or feel the pump vanes with your fingers from the side inlet (take the fan belt off and turn the pump).
Another test you could do is attach a garden hose to the inlet (seal it with you hand or something) and see it comes out the other side under pressure. This should check for blockages.
Actually re-reading, you say the rad is quite hot, if there is no water flow it should not really. Could you be creating too much heat? cam timing off?
If so its definately overheating.
I was thinking about the 360 gauge on a 940 sensor, it probably won't match. The engines run at significantly different temps (87 and 92 (360), possibly enough to register 3/4, an 88 thermostat gives a visibly higher indication on a 940), although I don't know if the gauge is different or the sensor is different so hard to say what way it will go. But thats just on the non-overheating theory.
If it is still over heating, you do not have enough water flow (assuming its rising when the car is moving which should be enough air flow). Definate should check the pump flow by the method I mention above. I wonder can you see or feel the pump vanes with your fingers from the side inlet (take the fan belt off and turn the pump).
Another test you could do is attach a garden hose to the inlet (seal it with you hand or something) and see it comes out the other side under pressure. This should check for blockages.
Actually re-reading, you say the rad is quite hot, if there is no water flow it should not really. Could you be creating too much heat? cam timing off?
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7