BHX engine unhappy

B14, B172, B19/200, D16 engine, ignition, cooling, fuel & exhaust system, gearbox, variomatic, final drive... | Tuning: engine swaps, welded diff, clutch upgrades...
NO parts requests here, please use our V3M BUY & SELL corner
User avatar
S10NPH
Posts: 461
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 09:52 pm
Location: Cambridge

BHX engine unhappy

Post by S10NPH » 04 May 2014 10:42 am

BHX, my 1979 343, has been running fairly poorly recently. I thought I would share the symptoms here to see if there is a consensus as to what could be wrong.

Since I got it, BHX has always been slightly hesitant on the accelerator, particularly until fully warmed up. The engine has also always made a slight rough note on acceleration which I had thought might be pinking, but Mac's experienced ears disagreed. Anyway, it was essentially fine and idled really sweetly, so I did nothing much about it.

You might remember that last summer, the condenser failed and the points went bang. When the AA man tried to play around with it, he took the air filter off the carb and revved the car quite a bit; it sounded extremely rough, like a motorcycle engine. I've never heard it sound so awful!

Anyway, I replaced the points, condenser and coil at that time, and the car was working again, although it was not running as sweetly as it was before the bang incident. It still has hesitation on the throttle, it 'kangaroos' a little when doing a constant speed, and engine braking comes in too quickly when releasing the throttle. Incidentally, the points gap is correct. On acceleration, the engine sounds very rough (it has brand new oil - no change), and on idling in traffic it sounds just like a diesel, with a constant tick.

The other thing to note is that the timing was off, and Mac adjusted it to be correct when he was over last year. If anything, it has been much worse since that!

Yesterday, I took out a spark plug, which was very oily. The plugs were new last year as I recall.
Image

I checked the water reservoir, and it has a very minor shimmer on the top, and is quite thick on my finger:
Image
Image

The oil filler cap has the tiniest bit of 'mayonnaise' on it, but nothing major:
Image

I don't suspect full OMGHGF as the car still has plenty of power and there's no white smoke, but perhaps something else is leaking.

Anyway, I'd be grateful for ideas. I'd like to return it to running sweetly again.
1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

User avatar
bogbasic
Posts: 1861
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 10:12 pm
Location: New Malden, Surrey.
Contact:

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by bogbasic » 04 May 2014 01:02 pm

Hello, have you tried tightening the bolts around where the carburettor sits on the inlet manifold and/or a bit of silicone sealant around there? I'll keep thinking... Does it have a vacuum advance mechanism? If so, that might be leaking....
1988 340 1.4 GL, 218k, 5 door (Grey Bess). Gone to CBA.
1991 340 1.7 GL, 64k, 5 door, petrol blue (Deep Blue).
1988 360 2.0 GLE, 140k, 5 door, ocean blue metallic (Blue Bess).
1989 340 1.7 GL, 108k, 3 door (Red Ness).
More info here!

User avatar
mac
Posts: 1403
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 11:02 am
Location: Needham Market U.K.

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by mac » 04 May 2014 10:02 pm

Plainly something is not right.

The plug is definitely "oiled" and whilst some oil will always find its way into the combustion chamber the pic shows evidence of either oil leakage across the head deck, or completely knackered valve stem oil seals.
Furthermore there should be NO signs of oil in the coolant reservoir - the pic suggests at least a small leak allowing oil into the water.

Condenser failure is not uncommon with modern "quality" ignition components and that in itself could account for points failure. (No excuse for the AA to rev the Bol locks off it - but not surprising). The poor running could be simply that I got the timing wrong (it was with a quality SUN timing light) but it's possible I simply made a mistake) That wouldn't explain the "diesel" noise, or the oil in the water, or the oil on the plugs (weak ignition will give wet plugs but from fuel not oil)

The tick may simply be a slack tappet, but why should it change? Again it's possible that one ore more valves may be pocketing but that would close up the gaps and reduce noise.

It is looking likely that "all is not well in the state of Cleon" and I suspect that "all may not be well" with the state of the head gasket. It would do no harm to pull the head and investigate (after a compression check) the engine could only benefit from a valve job anyway.

I'm not suggesting a massive HG failure but it certainly looks like oil is getting into the chambers and the running trouble sounds like a leak between cylinders to me.

Mac.
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.

User avatar
bogbasic
Posts: 1861
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 10:12 pm
Location: New Malden, Surrey.
Contact:

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by bogbasic » 05 May 2014 01:33 am

Yes, sorry I couldn't see the oil in the water from the phone..... it looks like head gasketitis now that I can see it better.....
1988 340 1.4 GL, 218k, 5 door (Grey Bess). Gone to CBA.
1991 340 1.7 GL, 64k, 5 door, petrol blue (Deep Blue).
1988 360 2.0 GLE, 140k, 5 door, ocean blue metallic (Blue Bess).
1989 340 1.7 GL, 108k, 3 door (Red Ness).
More info here!

User avatar
SteveP
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 7933
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 12:45 pm
Location: Coventry, UK

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by SteveP » 05 May 2014 09:39 am

Yup, it certainly looks like it could be HGF, but in a pretty mild and undramatic way! How old is the coolant - it couldn't be someone using the same funnel to put oil in the car as the water?! I doubt it as I'd imagine you've probably changed both anyway, but I've seen it before on old stuff!
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux

User avatar
V6 Man
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 1204
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 11:36 pm
Location: Belper, Derbyshire UK
Contact:

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by V6 Man » 05 May 2014 10:20 am

It doesn't have to be HGF, it could be a cracked head - it's not unknown.
Terms and conditions apply. This post may go down as well as up. Regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Hard hats to be worn. No reversing without a banksman. No admittance to unauthorized persons. Stop that. Put that down. Leave that alone.

User avatar
S10NPH
Posts: 461
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 09:52 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by S10NPH » 05 May 2014 05:46 pm

Yes, there was a cracked head on the 1981 car in Ely, although I'm told that had become un-drivable pretty quickly as a result.

Steve, I am struggling to remember whether I have changed the coolant on this car. It's the problem with having a bad memory and too many cars. I have now started to keep a service log so that I can note when I do things on all the cars. It is therefore perfectly possible that the coolant is very old.

Saying all that, I drove it today and it was fine really, just a little roughness on the throttle and the diesely/tappety sound on idle. It has plenty of power, doesn't seem to smoke.

I think I will source some gaskets, and set aside some time to take the head off to see what I can spot. I have never done it before, but it doesn't seem all that complicated (I bet I will regret saying that).
1977 Volvo 343 DL 1.4 Vario TUJ 247R
1980 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 PGH 590V
1981 Volvo 345 DL 1.4 ECR 312W
1985 Volvo 340 DL 1.4 Vario B168 DTU
1982 Volvo 245 GLT 2.3 Auto VKN 137X
1997 Saab 900 Convertible P290 DDF and 2018 VW Tiguan S10 NPH

User avatar
Chris_C
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9600
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 11:53 pm
Location: South Coast, UK

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by Chris_C » 06 May 2014 12:06 pm

Just make sure you follow green book procedure when taken the head off and get the correct Volvo Special "don't let the bloody liners move no matter what I do" tool (Some M12 washers from memory, but check!)

Or leave the push rods on Pettaws bonnet when you drive off to get said special tool and have to drive around Rickmansworth collecting them from the corners in the road when they rolled off.
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

User avatar
mac
Posts: 1403
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 11:02 am
Location: Needham Market U.K.

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by mac » 06 May 2014 12:11 pm

I have two sets of the "don't let the bloody liners move" tools, (and gaskets in stock for that matter).

The job is well within your ability. - just let me know what you need Siôn.

Mac
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.

macplaxton
Posts: 3283
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 02:29 am

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by macplaxton » 06 May 2014 12:42 pm

Chris_C wrote:and get the correct Volvo Special "don't let the bloody liners move no matter what I do" tool (Some M12 washers from memory, but check!)
Pah! Just do something with all those odd-sized sockets in the set and use the head bolts.

Image
72 DAF 44 Estate 78 Volvo 343DL Black BeautyImageImage
82 Volvo 343DL CVTImageImage 88 Volvo 340DL Diesel

User avatar
mac
Posts: 1403
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 11:02 am
Location: Needham Market U.K.

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by mac » 06 May 2014 12:59 pm

How delightfully "Irish" - I see the culture rubbing off!
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.

volvomania
Posts: 641
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 02:24 pm
Location: Antwerp, Belgium

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by volvomania » 08 May 2014 08:11 am

If it was truly Irish he would have used full glasses of Gxxxxxxss :lol:

Cracked heads are certainly not uncommon.
Life is a journey, so sit back and enjoy the ride!

Born Built Beauties: Parts keeping our cars on the road!

http://www.Born-Built-Beauties.eu

classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5461
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by classicswede » 08 May 2014 10:57 am

If it turns out you need the head I have if yours has cracked I don't mind doing a swap.
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image

User avatar
SteveP
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 7933
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 12:45 pm
Location: Coventry, UK

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by SteveP » 10 May 2014 04:22 pm

Before whipping the head off.. and not knowing the state of the coolant, I'd be tempted to change the coolant and do a compression check :)
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux

User avatar
mac
Posts: 1403
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 11:02 am
Location: Needham Market U.K.

Re: BHX engine unhappy

Post by mac » 10 May 2014 04:36 pm

mac wrote:Plainly something is not right.
It would do no harm to pull the head and investigate (after a compression check) the engine could only benefit from a valve job anyway.
Mac.
M
88 5door Redline 1.7 52k - 19 XC60 Momentum Pro D4 AWD 17k
1950 pair of legs that don't work very well.

Post Reply