GLT 200e not starting

B14, B172, B19/200, D16 engine, ignition, cooling, fuel & exhaust system, gearbox, variomatic, final drive... | Tuning: engine swaps, welded diff, clutch upgrades...
NO parts requests here, please use our V3M BUY & SELL corner
Post Reply
User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 16 Jun 2014 05:36 pm

hi, as i have breifly explained in my project thread, i have been unwell and off work for a number of weeks now
... thats where the story begins. the last day i was at work the 360 drove home 25 miles without any issues.

after a few weeks of neglect it is failing to start.
the battery is fine, the starter is spinning and engaging the flywheel, the fuel pump is working, theres fuel entering the cylinders and sparks at each plug and (as far i can tell with my dodgy compression tester) there decent compression on each cylinder. but it wont run for more than a couple of seconds (im guessing, until the fuel from the cold start inj is used up) unless starting with a the throttle wide open, then it runs rough as ..... for a few more seconds. but still dies

i have spent a couple days with the multimeter and a haynes manual and the injection system wiring is giving all the right readings, except theres no volts across the injectors themselves. only the cold start injector appears to be firing.

so moving on to renix checks; the CPS has perfect resistance across it, the renix white plug has slightly low voltage at pin 3 when the starter is spinning (it suggest there should be a minimum of 9.5v, im only seeing 8.5, but haynes doesnt indicate what the problem should be for an incorrect reading) and the secondary winding resistance on the coil is high (should be 2.5-5.5kohms but mine is up over 8k). the primary winding resistance is in spec, i havent got a test lamp atm so havent been able to check whether theres a pulse across pins 9 and 10 on the renix control unit when starting (ill try fashion something for a test tomorrow)

this suggests my coil needs replacing but im confused as to why ive got decent sparks and injector problems.

any help/advice appreciated, thanks

Tom

Ride_on
Posts: 2262
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by Ride_on » 16 Jun 2014 09:53 pm

Sounds like something wrong with the fuel cut out relay or wiring. Try hard wiring the fuel pump to the battery, just as an elimination test (don't drive it like that).
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 16 Jun 2014 10:40 pm

Is the fuel cutout relay the 'control relay' (black 7 pin jobby by the battery) that feeds power to the pump via the lower fuse in the aux fuse box behind the battery? Ive had to put a new in line fuse as the connector in the aux fusebox had fallen apart. This all appears to be fine now, the wiring to that relay is as according to haynes (bar test for pulsing signals as i havent got a test lamp)

The fuel pump has power and is supplying fuel to the rail. Ive disconnected the line from the filter to the rail and it was pissing out at some rate while cranking. I havent got any pressure test equipment so im not sure if its upto spec

... if i do feed the pump a permanent live and it does run, what does that imply? Duff relay? anyone got a working spare??

Ride_on
Posts: 2262
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by Ride_on » 17 Jun 2014 11:35 am

I can't rember exactly where the relay is but its more of a 'module' than a simple relay. Its not behind the battery, but attached to the inlet side on some vertical framework. It will give power initially, but if certain conditions are not met like pulses from the crank sensor, it cuts the power after a second or so. Or it maybe it is just giving an initial prime pulse when you turn the ignition key. Possibly the crank sensor is not connected to it, wiring broken etc. I went to work on a car that had the same symptoms and it turned out the relay was wired incorrectly.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

kelvingenders
Posts: 463
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 08:40 am

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by kelvingenders » 17 Jun 2014 11:55 am

Sounds simple, but it may help...change the fuel filters.... The one in front the fuel pump and the one in the engine bay :360:

User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 17 Jun 2014 12:32 pm

The one in the engine bay is brand new. Ill replace the one by the pump for peace of mind, but im not sure its causing my problem, theres definitely a good amount of fuel getting to the rail. Im trying to get someone to come round with some test equipment so i can check exactly what pressure the fuel is in the line. But it feels like theres some in the return line going back to tank, so i can only assume the line pressure is greater than the regulator

ive done some checks on the AMM this morn and the haynes says 'the resistance across x and y pins should be 200-1000ohms when the arm is moved' im getting really erratic readings when i move the arm. Should the reading steadily increase from the arm closed (~200) through to the arm being fully opened (~1000) because mines gives up and down readings through the travel of the arm

User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 17 Jun 2014 12:40 pm

Sorry ride on, ive moved mine, it was originally on the amm bracket. That is what haynes refers to as 'conrol relay'.
Off to grab a test lamp, ill double check it and report back.

Thanks lads

User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 18 Jun 2014 03:56 pm

Yep, definitely not getting a 'pulse' @ either pin 15 of the relay or across pins 9 & 10 on the renix/coil when its turning over

Having chased the wiring back a little, its starting to not tally up with the haynes. but why would it have run being wired as it is and now suddenly it wont?!?

User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 18 Jun 2014 07:44 pm

Ignore above. Everything goes where it needs to, the relay is wired as it should be according to haynes. the renix, ECU checks all OK. AMM, aux air valve, throttle switch and temp sensors also checked and ok

so far all that doesnt check out is: power to injectors, crank pulse at coil and control relay ... new CPS and coil are on the way.

Just took the fuel pipe off between the filter and pump and the filter is definitely not obstructed in anyway ... was like id just drilled a hole in tha tank, fuel just fell out.

Although, having bridged the pins on the relay to feed a live to the pump (which sounds to be pumping ok) i tried to start the car as suggested above, no start. i let the pump run a bit to build the pressure in the line, then unscrewed one of the fittings on the rail expecting a release of pressure ... but no, a dribble at best. Could the reg have failed and just be letting everything go back to tank? ... still no test equipment to make sure

User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 26 Jun 2014 12:51 pm

right, i got in a bit of panic because im due back at work on monday and the GLT still wont start, so ive had a auto electrician pop round for a look

we chased the cps signal as far as the ECU, but theres still no 'pulse' at the injectors. he got himself convinced that everything barr the ecu was doing what it should. so having taken the cover off he found that pin 13 (thick brown wire from the aux air meter) had burnt out and the wire to pin 1 (from the control relay/renix) had an extra wire looping round to pin 25 (this is not shown on any diagrams, but this pin (25) had also burnt)

so now im £75 out of pocket, the car is no nearer to running, i need a new ecu (which still isnt likely to fix the problem and will probably get burnt by the dodgy wiring) ...... and having had 6 weeks off work im not going bring much home for the next couple of months .... and im generally fed up







any suggestions? because im starting the think itll make a better fire than the garden ornament its become

Ride_on
Posts: 2262
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by Ride_on » 26 Jun 2014 11:58 pm

I've got a spare ECU and loom (i think) here, I don't consider it has a great value and any future project I do I will use a more advanced system. You do need to know why it burnt out, otherwise it will go again. Is there a cut in the loom or something?
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

User avatar
thododd
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 Jul 2012 09:58 pm
Location: Gloucester/ Bristol

Re: GLT 200e not starting

Post by thododd » 27 Jun 2014 06:20 pm

Cheers buddy, thatd be really helpful, please pm with a price for both posted to stroud and a payment method. I definitely need to diagnose the problem with the loom but as far as i (and the sparky) can tell its wired up according to all the diagrams we can find. Even the colours are all matching up.

The pulse from the cps is getting as far as the ecu, but no signal is coming back from the ecu to the injectors.
Ill try get a pic of the board to show where its burnt, but is only in one corner.
im off back to work on monday (in the mrs 1.1 saxo :( ) and im gonna ask the sparky at work to assess the damage to my ecu and maybe repair it. Ive seen him do wonders with the ruined electrofusion welding boxes on the hire fleet at work, so fingers crossed an 80's volvo ecu with a wee burn in the corner should be well within his capabilities.

Post Reply