K cam

Post by **blackbox** » 09 Sep 2006 04:28 am

will a k cam shaft fit a B19E

Post by **jtbo** » 09 Sep 2006 10:24 am

Certainly it will fit.

Post by **blackbox** » 10 Sep 2006 03:06 am

cool

i will get it of ebay down here

Post by **foggyjames** » 20 Sep 2006 11:25 pm

It will physically fit, yes, but it probably won't run properly (i.e. make good power) on the stock EFI system.

cheers

James

Post by **Fuse** » 21 Sep 2006 09:06 am

LE-Jetronic will work up to ~145-150hp without mods.. This one Finnish guy (who now builds serious 1/4-mile cars) had a long time ago a 360 with 2.3l bottom end and with LE-Jetronic and the cam he had in it was much more aggressive than D or K. He said that worked fine with 2.3l bottom end and reved over 7000rpm.. So I think that LE-Jet is fine with K cam in 2 litre.

Post by **SteveP** » 21 Sep 2006 09:39 am

This kinda says to me... why do all that work and retain about the most restrictive thing

Post by **foggyjames** » 21 Sep 2006 01:17 pm

Fuse wrote:He said that worked fine with 2.3l bottom end and reved over 7000rpm.. So I think that LE-Jet is fine with K cam in 2 litre.

There's will it work, and will it fuel correctly (to give optimal power). A) yes, B) probably not. The flappy paddle airflow meter is pretty dumb. Aftermarket systems exist for a reason!

cheers

James

Post by **Fuse** » 21 Sep 2006 02:57 pm

SteveP wrote:This kinda says to me... why do all that work and retain about the most restrictive thing

Because he had 2.3l bottom end which he had no use, in his carage and needed a daily driver?

These are people who swap engines in couple hours so it wasn't anything major even if it wouldn't have worked correctly.

And this was early 90's keep in mind. No MS around.

And LE-Jet has been proven to handle 140-150hp without any major mods, so I wouldn't see why to get rid of it if someone is not aiming for high power or building the car completely but just wanting a bit more power in the top end for daily driver..

Post by **Carl** » 21 Sep 2006 05:22 pm

Fuse wrote: And LE-Jet has been proven to handle 140-150hp without any major mods, so I wouldn't see why to get rid of it if someone is not aiming for high power or building the car completely but just wanting a bit more power in the top end for daily driver..

Hmmm that's quite interesting, as I have a 2.3 lump and a k cam hanging around. And with no money to buy anything else, like MS or a donor car, that could be a decent temporary measure, and a good winter project.

I think I need to speak to Mr Farrell about picking up his spare 360 engine to rob bits from!

Post by **Bilbo** » 21 Sep 2006 06:10 pm

our car ran on a much "lumpier" grp a cam, on injection with no problems and put out 137@the wheels !!

Post by **foggyjames** » 21 Sep 2006 06:14 pm

If LE cannot fuel correctly for the cam, you may not get that extra power...you may even get less. Ali found that his V cammed 360 was no quicker than SteveP's standard one, and Ali's is a 3dr!

I'm not in any way convinced that LE correctly "just sniffs the extra airflow". Air Mass Meters (i.e. LH2.4) appear to be better at this than Air Flow Meters (flappy paddles), but by virtue of the fact that most people trying this are being stingey, they haven't exactly bothered to check their AFR curve with a wideband. Quite a few of the guys running chipped LH2.4 also get unexplained sudden drop-off in power at the top end - I suspect because of poor fuelling.

I'm totally confident that it will work (go, stop, not blow up), but will it make the best power? Probably not. Car modification is full of bullshit - Solex carbs are no good, Volvo engines are no good, the K cam automatically gives a lumpy idle - usually because someone's mate down the pub says so!

cheers

James

Post by **Fuse** » 21 Sep 2006 06:35 pm

And I forgot to say that of course MS or similiar is always better, but not everyone are building a high-spec street racer and I can understand that, so trying different setups before getting that ultimate system wont hurt anybody. You gain a lot of usefull knowledge about different things.

Of course there are people who will buy a bottom end worth of many thousand euros and the most expensive engine managment in the market etc... for their first engine they build, even if thy are aiming for something like below 400hp, which you could achieve with MS and stock Volvo internals.

I've seen people to put a huge amounts of money on their first engine and been end up being slower than the guy at the next lane who didn't use the most expensive parts available but had much more valuable experience of building engines..

I prefer the way where you upgrade parts when the parts you currently use aren't coping up and you really need to upgrade to get the power for which you are aiming. In that way you learn much more about the engines and how much stock parts can handle etc... but of course this is a matter of preference.

For example this one Finnish guy started building his Amazon with B20 engine, he turboed it, he got to 260hp with that setup and as he wanted more he built an 8V SOHC Turbo which first gave 350hp, at final stage it gave 408hp.

Now at this summer he Finished his most final engine, 16V B23 Turbo, (head is good for over 600hp with 1bar so if everything else works right he should get quite nice power figures..) which should give a lot more than his previous 8V setup..

Amazing car.. engine bay looks very stockish and it looks quite like a normal Amazon on the outside.

That's what I meant before, I prefer staged building because then you really learn what affects on what and how stuff really works.

Post by **foggyjames** » 21 Sep 2006 07:18 pm

Oh totally - I agree that it's so hard to get a sense of direction even, when doing things all in one go. Tweak, evaluate, re-tweak.

My problem with LE-Jet (and Motronic on 740 Turbos) is that it sucks even on a standard car. I'd consider an upgrade to a decent system (even LH2.4) a 'stage 0'....not even a first tweak. Anecdotal evidence would appear to suggest that it can't cope with even the mildest of upgrades (although I'm very interested in Sven/Bilbo's results).

The danger, as you suggest, is that there are plenty of cars out there with expensive parts making poor power. There are several MS'd turbo cars in the US slower than my 360 in the 1/4 mile.

cheers

James

Post by **pettaw** » 21 Sep 2006 07:52 pm

Any system isn't gonna work right if its tuned badly, but probably LE-jet would be more able to cope with changes because its based on airflow rather than manifold vacuum as MS is.

I don't think that you'd get particular problems with LE jet running a different cam, but you'd sure not be optimised for it.

Post by **foggyjames** » 21 Sep 2006 08:15 pm

Exactly Andy. MS doesn't measure airflow in any way (edit: I'm forgetting that you can now hook up an AMM....but by default...), so if the actual airflow at a given MAP, throttle position and RPM is different to what the map is set for, it will be hugely wrong....while LE will at least make an approximation to the correct AFR, as it 'knows' something is different.

Having said that, I think for forced induction, the degree to which it will 'work' at all is limited too.

cheers

James