2.3 in 360glt

[jamie_stafford]

i have been offerd a 2.3 from a 240 cheap (£40) and i was wandering if i could use my original injection? i am not sure if it is carb or injection, will it be much more powerfull, more tourqe?

[SteveP]

I wouldn't trust using the original injection system to run the 2.3, it's a very antiquated and non-adaptive unit... it'll probably run but not necessarily fuel it properly.

[jtbo]

Calculating proper increase in injector size and installing such larger injectors should help somewhat. If original injection is equipped with lambda sensor, then there is some flexibility, maybe 15% ? So that should make situation bearable.

It will have more power, but in stock form increase is not very much, swapping better FI and cam should release some potential

[filthyjohn]

Do it but CONVERT 2 CARBARETTAS. Bike carbs FTW.

[Fuse]

Going from injection to carbs wouldn't be that wise nowadays when all the EFI stuff is already there for better fuel management system than stock if better one is wanted.

Though for example rising fuel pressure from 3 bar to 3.5bar increases fuel injected 8%. Stock B230F has same size injectors as B200F so the fuel needed for extra 0.3l of displacement isn't that much as some people seem to make it look like. Of course this when engines are in stock form/tune. We aren't talking about turbocharging or anything here.

Of course if you tune the engine then it's a different thing and LE/LU-Jet isn't adaptive but if engine is in stock form it'll work just fine.

But I would install something else than the stock EFI because there's no extra job if you are changing the whole engine anyway and you get more out of the stock engine even with modern (adjustable) EFI.

I Just wanted to point out that it would work in normal street use just fine. Works as good as any stock NA 8V redblock works so nothing world beating. More low rpm torque (quite a lot actually) and nothing special at higher RPMs compared to B200.

[filthyjohn]

That's an interesting point. I don't know how much extra a redblock would make on R1 carbs but if all you wanted was a little more torque then sticking with factory management and raising the fuel pressure would probably work well.
How much extra power with carbs would depend on how restrictive the standard stuff is, R1 carbs can deliver a LOT of fuel and air when jetted appropriately.

[jtbo]

That's an interesting point. I don't know how much extra a redblock would make on R1 carbs but if all you wanted was a little more torque then sticking with factory management and raising the fuel pressure would probably work well.
How much extra power with carbs would depend on how restrictive the standard stuff is, R1 carbs can deliver a LOT of fuel and air when jetted appropriately.

Which is still hold back by stock ignition, but with proper engine management you get gains from proper spark timing, also you can get individual throttle bodies with fuel injection and you get as much fuel and air as with carbs, but you will have better control over it.

Well, at end of day it depends what one is after. Just remember what did happen to Makkiver's 360 with increased fuel pressure, little reminder, there was some flames. Also chances of getting stuck injector increases with increased fuel pressure, such small increase as 0.5bar is not probably causing problems, but if one can get used set of injectors for little money, that is route I would choose instead of increasing fuel pressure

[Fuse]

Well he was using stock fuel lines 20 years old and raised the fuel pressure like 1bar or more. Most cars have higher fuel pressure than 2.5bar anyways which is the basic pressure in 300-series. Bigger turbo Volvos have 3bar regulator for example and many modern turbos have basic pressure of 3.5 to 4 bar or even more.

In NA vehicle the 2.5bar is on full throttle when there's atmospheric pressure in the intake manifold. But take a turbo car which has for example 3bar basic fuel pressure and add 1bar of boost in the manifold, there's 4bar pressure in the fuel line compared to the atmospheric pressure so 3bar @ full throttle in NA car isn't anything exceptional.

So I wouldn't say the fire was because of the raised fuel pressure, but bad hoses.. I replaced all hoses in my car with industrial grade hoses good enough for 16bar constant pressure. Should be enough..

And like I said stock B230F has same sized injectors as stock B200F so the amount of fuel going in to the engine isn't dramatically different in stock form.

Of course maps are tuned better for 2.3 litre with it's own injection but remember that all of this stuff is 80's stuff, some cars are with K-Jet so we can't talk about accurate fueling anyhow. I was comparing an engine with 2.3l bottom end and 300-series LE-Jet/LU-Jet with a stock B230F engine. Differences in stock form in street use/daily drving aren't big.

Of course if we compare those two to a 2.3l engine with a properly tuned Megasquirt or similiar, differences are big but I was comparing 80s stuff to 80s stuff in stock form and how a 2.3l engine with LE-Jet/Lu-jet would compare with a stock 2.3l factory engine with it's own injection system.

[filthyjohn]

If you want good control over fuel and spark you ideally want an aftermarket ECU such as Emerald M3D costing around £1000.
Bike carbs cost under £100 and a manifold £175 from Bogg Brothers in the East Riding of Yorkshire.

An easy middle ground would be bike bodies. Most bikes have ITBs and a set can be had for around £100, manifold for around the same as for carbs, then to keep the cost down you could use megasquirt for around £300.

[jtbo]

What Emerald M3D can do that Megasquirt can't do?

I would think that there is not much if any power gain at all, compared to 80's systems both are superior, but when compared to each other there is probably going to be very little difference in performance.

Many aftermarket ECUs are really expensive when you look what they offer, imo.

You have those silly prices of bike carbs there, here probably 1000 even more from such

Still cheapest is to use original system, then when hunger for power grows one can always move on from there

[jamie_stafford]

im a bit confused hear, i dont really want to spend that sort of money on Emerald or Megasquirt, what will i need to do to run well on my original injection, what sort of gains can i expect?

[filthyjohn]

What Emerald M3D can do that Megasquirt can't do?

you can switch between multiple maps using in-car buttons, electronic wastegate control, misfiring anti-lag, the most accurate mapping control in the business, it supports vtec, vvc, vvti etc, and even 5 cylinder engines now! Dave Walker himself will map your car for free (normally £275) if you buy the ECU from him (it's his company). Megasquirt's come a long way but Emerald is still ahead.

Sorry for the threadjack, I'm reasonably certain you can make noticable gains by dropping in a 2.3, and it should run on the factory ECU. However, I know nothing of the details but somebody on here will be able to help I'm sure.

[classicswede]

To go back to the original question.

Yes the 360 injection system will run the 2.3 as well as it runs the 2ltr. You need to make sure the 240 engine you have to go in is either a carb modelor very late injection model. If you are going to fit a K jet engine you will need to blank of the injector holes in the head.

You will need to use the 360 sump oil pump and dizzy and inlet manifold etc.

[jtbo]

I believe head from 360 could be swapped to top of 2.3 block too? That would save bit of cash when buying engine.

Alternator is in different place on some engines, but that is perhaps not much of issue.

[classicswede]

Yes the head can be swapped (provided not a B230K). Cost wise and hassle I would go for a complete running engine.

Saves replacing head gasget etc and risk of engine not running