UK proposed driving tax

[jtbo]

This might interest some of you:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=19316

Now some people are here trying to get this same thing happening here too, ridiculous.

[Ronnie]

Yes it is ridiculous - sign a petition Here to try to stop it

[GeordieRanger]

Doesn't this government think drivers pay enough in this country it's just another way for big brother to spy on us and charge us for the privilege

[jtbo]

You need to get as many as possible to sign that petition before 20th day, maybe they will listen.

Paying something like £80 each month to have such tracking device is something absurd, how they even think anyone can afford that?

Also level of control would be really something at least I would not accept and I don't know anyone will if they understand what does it mean. I saw already program from UK, there was video from camera at intersection where some driver did cut lane ahead of truck, no contact was made, they did track down this driver and put into charge from traffic violation.

Now even that is too much Orwell society to me, but just imagine these tracking devices in car, they check where you have been going and what speed.

What next, trackers to wrist so they know where you are so they can offer safety in case of some terror event?

I'm even more towards society that has no computers, too many stupid politics utilizing this technology...

[A M R]

the wankers!

how are they going to be fitting these electronicy box things anyway? electronics are more easier to get around than something that is not electronic. if it contained gps or something that would know where the car is or if the device has been disconected, all you would need to do is give the device constant power while you removed it and then plug it into your mains or whatever...no having to pay road tax EVER

[dynamite40]

the goverment
they are only there to line there own pockets
tax this tax that DAMM the lot of them

[petefarrell360]

Good work on linking to the petition Ronnie! Signed........

I've been hearing mumblings about this in the press for months. Nothing set in stone, just ideas flying around. As AMR says, there would always be a means of getting round it. Quite frankly I'd not be paying it, and I'd certainly not be paying to have a box I don't want, installed in MY car, to track everything I did. Despite anyone saying it wouldn't be used to track speed, movements or any offences I'd not believe them, as Jani says, it's a Big Brother State. I'd refuse to pay to have it fitted and not allow access to my vehicle, as surely it must infringe some human right? So far it's claimed to be estimated at £200 per box, so I've got to pay £600 for my three vehicles, so the Government can then tax me for using them........ I think not!

Secondly, how are they going to charge, as I believed one suggestion was busy roads at rush hour would be more expensive. So all it's going to do is drive people off the beaten track into the small rat runs and country roads to make it cheaper, correct?

Also, before anyone dares charge me more than what I'm being robbed for, for driving on the roads, I want to see some return for it, like a road that isn't full of potholes and down right dangerous to drive on, like 100% of the roads around me, as I'm in a rural area, anything other than the main road is terrible, and even the main road isn't great!

Being self employed, within reason I could schedule my working hours to avoid peak times......... but what difference would that make to anything? I don't cause congestion in my area, it's the same amount of emissions on the same length of journey etc.

Once again, it's the normal Joe public who is going to suffer, and those at the poorest end of the scale. For instance someone who is forced to drive 50 miles a day to work to make a living through whatever circumstances, they don't have a choice in the matter and have to travel there at peak times. They are going to be hit hardest. The richer end of the scale isn't going to worry at whatever they're charged quite frankly. As with the London Congestion Charge, Or London CON as I think it should be called, it will never discourage the people who have no real need to go in or could find another way in, e.g. public transport, but have enough money to pay the charge without worrying, and the people who have no choice but to drive in have to pay or they loose out...... win win for the Government. It hasn't cut congestion......

It doesn't appear to even encourage anyone to convert to more environmentally friendly fuels. Apparently running a 50 mpg energy efficient car at roughly 10 pence per mile, as opposed to a 15 mpg 5 litre beast at 33 pence a mile giving a 16 percent saving on the greener car in fuel, is then disregarded and the energy efficient model is given no saving on the fixed charge for using the road off £1.34. I believe this is the flat rate scheme for any road, if this is correct, then I want carpet on the roads for this sort of money, cleaned and swept, and a chauffeur!

I've just this minute found a group I'd seen advertised in a motoring newspaper called Motorists Voice. VIST THEM HERE at http://www.motoristsvoice.org.uk In what I've briefly read, they are starting off by campaigning about the road charging/taxation, road safety and public transport. It seems as though they plan to look after the interests of the classic car owner too, and one of their spokesmen said "It doesn't have to be expensive to be loved." That covers the Volvo 300 then!

Yet again the Government is claiming that older cars are more polluting than your shiney new, over priced car, so they should be priced off of the road. And as we know, it's far more damaging to the environment to produce a new car than it is to continue using a well maintained classic. Also the catalyst is the most damaging thing to make.......!

If anything like this ever happens in (not so Great) Britain, then I'll pack my stuff........ I'm off! (Sorry for the huge rant, but it's something I feel strongly about, we need to act now, or we'll be walked all over and before we know it it'll all be in place and once it is, there's no going back!)

Pete

[jtbo]

It takes 200 000km until new car is more friendly to environment than old car.

Also at least here pollutions from traffic are 13,6 Million tonnes of CO2 where human breathing is 45 Million tonnes of CO2, heating, electricity, industrial etc are over 30 Million tonnes of CO2 so I have no understanding why cars should be new or why it is our driving that has to be under tighter control.

Of course in UK it can be different story, we produce so much less of CO2 that even we would stop driving cars completely it would barely even show in graph, there is just few cars compared to UK, yet still our government is trying to follow same methods when reducing pollutions.

I don't know what is real reason behind these actions of our governments, one thing I know is that environment is not gaining much with these methods. Bio fuels and increasing forests and plants should be far more effective as that would clean out CO2 from air.

I don't know how much you can get from this, sorry have no English version. I shows total CO2 emissions, 16% is traffic's share in our country, it really would not show up no matter what they do to traffic.
Quick course from Finnish:
Iso-Britannia = UK
Suomi = Finland


These environmental reasons are just something like excuses now, there could be real actions that do have effect. Hopefully more people will get knownledge of these issues before it is too late.

[redline]

signed it and sent it to all my email contacts
sorry if you guys get it again it was quicker to do it that way

[Ronnie]

As you say, Pete, this situation is not acceptable. If this does go through, mass civil disobediance would seem like the correct way to go. If enough people refuse to comply then law enforcement will be completely overwhelmed - especially with the complications of new technologies and systems.

It will become a 21st century Poll-tax

[MJ]

What on earth is happening to this country. The only benefit I can see is owners of cars which are hardly used, I'm talking classics that only come out a few times in the summer, as they won't have to pay road tax all through the year, but as I understand it, these boxes have monthly subscriptions which wipes that out.

Any number of people will get around this, what a stupid idea

Yesterday it was all over the news that the petition had reached a million signatures, now there are about 88,000 more , and about 700 of them while I was typing this

And if you didn't have to give your e-mail and post address I'm sure there'd be more...

[jtbo]

I would sign it, but happens to be I'm not living in proper area or something, lol.

I really hope that people of UK can get their government to reconsider this, it will also be sign to our government that it is not good idea and also you would have at least some level of freedom without these spying devices.

Government exists for people, not other way around, but sometimes it feels that government exists for companies and people exists only for companies too, that is sad direction, I'm afraid that might be biggest reason for system to collapse.

[petefarrell360]

Yeah, the subscriptions on top make it even worse. That as you say MJ, cancels out any saving a classic owner or low usage car might have made. Plus the initial cost of having it installed.

My main concern is what on earth is going to happen to Haulage firms? How are they ever going to manage to pass on the cost of using the road to their customers? Royal Mail........ is the price of a stamp going to go up to £2 or something ridiculous, as otherwise every one of their vehicles delivering and transporting post if going to be costing them serious money, for a company already in trouble. Taxis........ Public Transport, will that be ignored and the tax won't be charged to them to encourage it's use, thus meaning these firms can make more profit more from the situation?

What about foreign visitors? Will they be forced to hire a unit when they enter the country, then must pay their bill when they leave and return the unit, the same for the foreign lorries etc? As otherwise, what's to stop people buying foreign cars to use here and not registering them in the UK for as long as possible?

It'll increase car crime if someone has a long journey to make, they'll probably end up stealing a car to avoid all the costs normally incurred.

Pete

[MJ]

I guess at the moment foreign cars can come here without paying anything as long as they're legal in their home country, so I'd assume that'd stay the same.

I'm sure I've heard before that a lot of haulage firms have their trucks registered abroad for some reason to save money, so I guess that may take place more...

[Chris_C]

What I don't get is why we don't charge foreign cars a Vignette, a la Czech and Slovakia...

Simple to do, put a monkey on the tunnel and boat ports, tenner for a week. Would make instant boost to the coffers, and it's not unreasonable. When me and Nick went on our trip, 3 countries did it, and we thought it a really good idea.