Speed limits

[magnumpi]

Does anyone on here drive a van?

I've driven vans since i passed my test and i never knew they are subject to a lower speed limit than cars .
Maybe i've just been ignorant to it i knew HGV's and the like are, but when was i ever told, is it common knowledge, would your average Joe builder know, i doubt it?

I only found out when a work colleague got a speeding fine on a NSL road for doing 61mph, we pressumed it's 60 as it's single lane dual carriage way. Well it is but vans are subject to a lower limit of 50mph so when we passed the mobile camera van we pressumed doing 60 was fine.

Anyway just thought i'd share that with you if you didn't know this 26yr old law

More here:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/sp ... peedlimits

[macplaxton]

I have in the past and knew the rules.

But I must have bought about 5 editions of the Highway Code since passing my test nearly 19 years ago. Like to keep up with what's going on and they do alter the rules from time to time.

Highway Code - Rule 124

we pressumed it's 60 as it's single lane dual carriage way.

If it was, it'd be 60 mph in a tranny. (with the exception of course unless a lower limit is posted )

"Dual single lane" carriageways look like this (60mph national limit for a tranny):


A single carriageway looks like this (50mph national limit for a tranny):


So which one was it?

[jtbo]

That is interesting, we have also some of these rules, but we have to put that huge yellow/black vinyl to back of cars that are supposed to do only 50mph or 62mph.

For example, I have this yank tank, it is STW, but as it was sold with lower taxation during 80's it has stiff rear seat and need to have vinyl at rear, telling only 50mph is allowed, but exactly same car that was sold with full tax does not need vinyl, has soft rear seat and can do any speed there is allowed for roads.

Then vans that got ABS brakes, limit was 62 instead of 50 for vans without ABS, for buses if front seats did not have seatbelts limit was 50mph, but with seatbelts and ABS 62mph, but if no seatbelts then 50mph, it goes without saying that van that has more seating than 3 is a bus, and estate that has lower taxation and a vinyl is a van...

Promised land for bureaucrats, Finland

Anyway there are no different limits on different roads, that one limit applies to all roads, even our best and fastest roads, imagine how it feels to drive 50 where other go 70, feels pretty dangerous as some seem not to notice slower moving vehicle until just in last 20 meters .

[volvosneverdie]

How can people in Finland keep track of the Law !?

[jtbo]

How can people in Finland keep track of the Law !?

We have very good support system, fines and penalties from traffic violations are far heavier than let's say if you beat up someone.

Did I mention already that they also change laws, especially about car taxation (and of course things related to it) in every 5-10 years, sometimes even quicker?

At one point you could buy 4x4 without car tax, then they added law that cargo space must had certain size, there were few other changes during years, until once they made law that those should have same tax as passenger cars.

Everytime some change to pick pockets of tax payers it seems, if even one person gets advantage from something there is soon law that makes all suffer heavier taxes or limited possibilities.

Welcome to drive here, staying a week no problem, but stay few years and you might get a jackpot by tax rises. Latest one was yearly paid car owning tax for vans, it was changed so that gross weight is base for older vehicles, that means that tax from my yank tank got up over 300%, for some odd reason there has been lot of resistance over that law and it got delayed a bit from original schedule...

Way I see it your system of speed limits have some common sense behind it, as for dual single lane carriageways slower moving vans would cause lot of pileup of traffic, so it is very sensible to make them do same speed as other vehicles. Here they don't use common sense like that, so it makes our traffic not very well flowing, also we get pointless pileups and higher risk of accidents because of allowing lot slower vehicles.

There is probably stupid things like that in UK too, but many things I have read seem to aim better functioning traffic instead of making drivers to go by how statistically in theory things should work out, which usually just causes quite big mess.

[nvdw]

I didn't know about the van NSL either but am I correct when I say that once you do stick to 50 in your Transit, verbal abuse and such gets hurled at you by the car drivers who do get to drive at 60?

Just pulled THIS PDF off the DfT website and while I do support the message to some extent, quotes like this just make me LOL.

Some are simply excited by driving
fast.They can be easily affected by
motoring magazines and programmes
that highlight the top performance
levels of some vehicles.

Do these 'some people' exist? "I saw JC caning that Bentley the other week so I thought yes, lets do a MILLION MPH in my AWFUL VAUXHALL CORSA"

[magnumpi]

I have in the past and knew the rules.

But I must have bought about 5 editions of the Highway Code since passing my test nearly 19 years ago. Like to keep up with what's going on and they do alter the rules from time to time.

Highway Code - Rule 124

we pressumed it's 60 as it's single lane dual carriage way.

If it was, it'd be 60 mph in a tranny. (with the exception of course unless a lower limit is posted )

"Dual single lane" carriageways look like this (60mph national limit for a tranny):


A single carriageway looks like this (50mph national limit for a tranny):


So which one was it?

As you say it probably is wise to keep up to date with all the changes

It was as the bottom one but with a catch, no central island, but technically a 3 lane road. The oncoming lane is single and has a broken white line so over taking is acceptable, the side we were on is two lanes, could be a loophole there, or wishfull thinking?

Sounds like you have some odd laws in Finland.

[Chris_C]

It was as the bottom one but with a catch, no central island, but technically a 3 lane road. The oncoming lane is single and has a broken white line so over taking is acceptable, the side we were on is two lanes, could be a loophole there, or wishfull thinking?

Wishful I'm afraid dude, dual carriage way has nothing to do with number of lanes, it's whether there is an island separating the coming and going traffic (do painted hatching count for this "island" though?)

I had no idea about this NSL limit until today it must be said

[Speedy88]

I don't think hashed lines count because they are called "ghosted stips", not islands. I thought the van limit was 56 on single carriageways so I was half way there at least

Is it just me or does every other motorist seem to think it's 50mph on single carriageways in a car? This is one of my real pet hates

[Hell Driver]

I've been driving since 1987 and driving a 3.5t gross weight transit tipper for 8 years and I've never heard this one before. Are you telling me I can only do 60mph on a normal 70mph duel carriageway? and 60mph on a motorway? and 50mph on a normal 60mph single carriageway road? I've either been very lucky or it's not policed very tightly cos I'm sure 99.99999999% of van drivers neither know nor care about about such a thing. When I'm fully loaded I drive much more carefully anyway, speed and stopping distance wise. The van lets you know about the extra weight far more than a car with more passengers, due to the handling. Why should an empty van (2.2 tonnes) be restricted when a range rover at 2.12 tonnes is not?

EDIT Having read the links to the government websites above I can see that I've been labouring under a misunderstanding for many years, both in terms of the speed limits AND the parentage of the 'ministers' who have yet to be convinced of the need to do away with such an outdated and stupid law.

EDIT 2 Just noticed that I'm OK to do 70 on a motorway so really it's de-restricted duel carriageways (not many of them, if any, in Donny anyway) and de-restricted country roads (plenty of them ) I've got to look out for.

If anyone whats to see what I do for a living, click below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8qFD2s0Fwg
Smaller vehicle but you get the idea

[macplaxton]

Classic film!

It was as the bottom one but with a catch, no central island, but technically a 3 lane road. The oncoming lane is single and has a broken white line so over taking is acceptable, the side we were on is two lanes, could be a loophole there, or wishfull thinking?

As Chris said, nowt to do with number of lanes. You need a some sort of central divider that's more than just paint.

I've been driving since 1987 and driving a 3.5t gross weight transit tipper for 8 years and I've never heard this one before.

Wasn't reading your Highway Code cover to cover then? Actually, I remember my Dad mentioning it and a) he's NOT a driving instructor and b) he's 64. I've never given a toss whilst driving, the main thing I had to worry about was weight.

Take for instance the A1 (or similar trunk road with single carriageway stretches. When was the last time you ever saw a lorry doing 40mph on a single carriageway stretch oop North? I've not. Bung on the cruise control at 90km/h (56mph) and then nobody will overtake (I certainly wouldn't try as to get past quickly, you need to do loads more than 60mph and there are so many feckin' scameras.

Actually, the biggest nonsense is back-door metrication (I've nothing against metric, I was taught it exclusively when I was starting school in 1979, but either do it or not, not some half-arsed changeover). When I was driving minibuses, the new (at the time) 55 plate Transits that replaced the crappy LDVs where un-restricted, but when they come back from service, they were limited to 100km/h (62.5mph in old money) and because it had a limiter you couldn't use the outside lane of a three or more lane motorway. (DfT linky.) Lorries can only do 56mph (90km/h) when the speed limit is 60mph on the motorway.

[Hell Driver]

When I was learning to drive and reading the highway code I suppose I wasn't paying attention to anything but cars as I didn't expect to be driving anything else!!

[magnumpi]

Ah well, just glad i wasn't the one driving on that day

Yes people would hassle you if i was doing 50 in a 60 limit as car drivers like myself would more than likely be unaware of why i was doing so.

I pressume the it's always been in place but never really been enforced properly, and since the new Gov't have changed the way speed cameras revenue is collected i would suggest this may be why.

[nvdw]

Most likely they couldn't be bothered with calibrating the radar for more vehicle types than just cars 'n' lorries so van drivers must have gotten off the hook, up until now because some cheeky nerd at Gatso must have found out how to do it, and for less than a pence per camera. GR9 4 ADDED REVENUEZ.

I just keep breaking my head why anyone thought it was a good idea to set three different speed limits on NSL roads for three of the most common types of vehicles. To be honest, in the 1970s your average Scammell would hit just 40 on a good day but it bears little relevance to the trucks that are driven today. Same goes for the 70 mph blanket speed limit on the motorway. I was on the M25 on a stretch with speed camera's supposedly put up on every single gantry yet I was the only person doing 70, being overtaken by almost everyone.

[jtbo]

Ah well, just glad i wasn't the one driving on that day

Yes people would hassle you if i was doing 50 in a 60 limit as car drivers like myself would more than likely be unaware of why i was doing so.

I pressume the it's always been in place but never really been enforced properly, and since the new Gov't have changed the way speed cameras revenue is collected i would suggest this may be why.

I thought that new gov was going to stop using cameras as revenue collectors and are actually putting them to work for safety? Of course when it comes to politics, you never can't be sure if yes is yes, maybe, no, or next election.

Distance to car at front should be taken more seriously and enforced more than some speed limits, imo. Might be of course different in UK, but what I have heard tail gaters are strongly alive species there too...