snow FAIL!

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vØlvØfreak
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snow FAIL!

Post by vØlvØfreak » 21 Dec 2010 09:58 pm


magnumpi
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by magnumpi » 21 Dec 2010 11:36 pm

What an absolute mong! it never ceases to amaze me how a little bit of white stuff makes people do such stupid things.

To be fair thats why my 300 stays firmly on the driveway in this weather! It may just be mine, but with wide 13's, 1.4 ratios and the F7R it's neigh on impossible to get moving on anything but a flat surface, if you stop on a hill it'll spin in anygear with no more throttle than idle, or move slowly sideways :? :lol:
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Whats the matter with the car i'm driving can't you tell that it's out of style?

Ride_on
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by Ride_on » 22 Dec 2010 02:56 am

Sad! I particularly like the way she seems to think its FWD.

I was quite proud of my 940 the other day. Going up a slight hill of slush and snow, I came across a fancy Audi stuck spinning its 235's or something. I stopped behind it waiting for traffic to go past then pulled out and overtook it rather easily. I have 195s and deliberately kept a 3/4 full tank in the snow, + dog in the back helped. I've also done well in the 360s with 185s in the past.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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trabitom99
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by trabitom99 » 22 Dec 2010 08:02 am

Tyres, tyres, tyres... With anything but winter tyres driving on snow is always going to be a bit dodgy.

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
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jtbo
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by jtbo » 22 Dec 2010 09:46 am

At winter, narrow tire is better than wide tire, surface pressure is what helps to push sharp edges of rubber into ice/snow and that creates more grip.

80kg of gravel in boot of 360 when I drove during winter, is it that's why I never got stuck? :mrgreen:

One clever thing is that when you stand still on lights or whatever, then heat of tyres melts snow/ice below the tire which creates extremely slippery surface, trick is to move car just a tiny bit every 30 secs or so.

I have heard from snow plow that was stopped at side of road, tyres did melt ice under it and plow started to slide ending up on it's side into ditch, so you need to be careful where you park your car on ice.
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vØlvØfreak
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by vØlvØfreak » 22 Dec 2010 11:06 am

trabitom99 wrote:Tyres, tyres, tyres... With anything but winter tyres driving on snow is always going to be a bit dodgy.

Tom
Agree! We have winter tyres on the 360 and 240 and never had any problems! Only a lot of RWD fun :D

vØlvØfreak
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by vØlvØfreak » 22 Dec 2010 11:12 am

Ride_on wrote:Sad! I particularly like the way she seems to think its FWD.
Image

:lol:

Don't we love girls in the snow? :D

Ride_on
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by Ride_on » 22 Dec 2010 01:34 pm

jtbo wrote:At winter, narrow tire is better than wide tire, surface pressure is what helps to push sharp edges of rubber into ice/snow and that creates more grip.

80kg of gravel in boot of 360 when I drove during winter, is it that's why I never got stuck? :mrgreen:

One clever thing is that when you stand still on lights or whatever, then heat of tyres melts snow/ice below the tire which creates extremely slippery surface, trick is to move car just a tiny bit every 30 secs or so.

I have heard from snow plow that was stopped at side of road, tyres did melt ice under it and plow started to slide ending up on it's side into ditch, so you need to be careful where you park your car on ice.
That happened to me about 15 years ago in my GLE saloon. Parked outside a friends house on a snowy hill for about 20 mins when the neighbour came round to say my car was sliding down the hill. Luckily no harm done.

What is different about winter tyres? I though it was mainly lower temperature tolerance so they don't become too stiff. Do they actually grip better in the snow, without studs. My weather here is usually between -4C to +25C, we keep the same tyres all year. I have some spare rims, maybe a set would be useful.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

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jtbo
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by jtbo » 22 Dec 2010 01:56 pm

With my no stud winter tyres I can stop from 50mph in ~50 meters on snow (braking distance), even on ice under 100m is possible, but on black ice can take up to 200 meters.

That is winter tyres for northern europe, what they sell at UK and Germany are not the same.

There is one corner, it is quite steep, but from that angle it does not look so bad, it is s-curve with some nice height difference in a middle, during winter whole road is covered with ice and snow, but I don't need to slow down there, I can easily do 50Mph, without crossing center line, usually car behind me slows down so much that there is over 100 meters apart after that curve and still they do cut in corner to almost completely to other lane, even visibility is rather poor from driver's eye level.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 2,,0,20.22

In reality those are almost 90 degree bends, camera is slightly distorting propotions of image, imo.
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trabitom99
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by trabitom99 » 22 Dec 2010 02:01 pm

Ride_on wrote:What is different about winter tyres? I though it was mainly lower temperature tolerance so they don't become too stiff. Do they actually grip better in the snow, without studs. My weather here is usually between -4C to +25C, we keep the same tyres all year. I have some spare rims, maybe a set would be useful.
I used to think the whole winter tyre thing was a tyre-company myth, but since I've been using them the last 3 winters I wouldn't want to miss them. They're a bit softer, so supposedly they grip better at temperatures under +7°C, but most importantly they're great on snow. The profile is a lot different to a summer tyre.

Since this winter, summer tyres are illegal in Germany on snowy roads. The penalties aren't so high, but you invalidate your insurance doing so, which is more of a problem. The big hassle is having to change your wheels twice a year (possibly on several cars) but there are so-called "all-weather tyres" around which are apparently legal all year, but are just a compromise in both seasons.

AFAIK "M+S" tyres are legal winter tyres, but those with an extra snowflake symbol on them are better and the "ones to have".

Cheers

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 230000kms 1988

macplaxton
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by macplaxton » 22 Dec 2010 02:59 pm

trabitom99 wrote:Tyres, tyres, tyres... With anything but winter tyres driving on snow is always going to be a bit dodgy. Tom
True.

I've been getting round okay on summers, but then I don't drive like a bell-end! :wink:

I've been getting around okay in the DAF 44. The Variomatic in that behaves like a limited slip diff. Yesterday after work I had to clear about 6 inches of snow off it. Get started on 6V electrics (will it? won't it?) and then get going. When the traffic finally cleared a bit after Blanchardstown exit on the M50, I managed to get up to 35mph. Only thing that passed me was a 4x4, the rest were doing about 20km/h :lol:

Defeated by the hill out of Lucan village though, only because some muppets were having a go at it and I really didn't get a chance to get a decent run-up there.

Mrs MacP's 106 has been fine too, but that's plain boring to drive - on the other hand it has a radio.
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nvdw
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by nvdw » 22 Dec 2010 03:47 pm

trabitom99 wrote:I used to think the whole winter tyre thing was a tyre-company myth, but since I've been using them the last 3 winters I wouldn't want to miss them. They're a bit softer, so supposedly they grip better at temperatures under +7°C, but most importantly they're great on snow. The profile is a lot different to a summer tyre.
It's not a myth as such, it's semantics. Normally these tyres would be referred to as 'snow tyres', because they work best in snowy conditions. But since most people never have that much snow in their whereabouts, they wouldn't buy any tyres for those few days in a year when it does snow. That's why they are sold as winter tyres: it implies that they will be useful for consecutive months, even when it doesn't snow. It's where that +7°C thing comes from. Of course, you'll find that the compound of a snow/winter tyre is less prone to hardening at around-zero temperatures, but that's why they are snow tyres. On a wet road, which is what you encounter most in winter and autumn, a 'summer' tyre actually returns better brake distances. The main reason why snow tyres are better at handling snow is not the compound, but the profile which is designed to disperse of it quickly. The phrase 'summer tyre' implies that it is completely useless in winter, which is not entirely true. What I would like to know is how winter tyres behave on icy roads. I was slithering about on an icy motorway last week but somehow I don't think winter tyres would have helped me there, but please enlighten me if you can find evidence to the contrary.

On a side note, the news around here speaks volumes of winter tyres being 'scarce' or otherwise 'sold out', but knowing business in general I don't believe a word of it. If they could prove useful to me, I'll buy some next summer :lol:

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jtbo
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by jtbo » 22 Dec 2010 04:46 pm

White ice = insane grip, stops almost the same as wet tarmac, black ice / clear ice = better look where is gap, easily 4x braking distance compared to white ice.

Ton of grip, but after you go above limit, then looses great part of grip, compound is very soft, when sliding hand on tire there is very high friction compared to summer tires, compound plays big part of grip on ice + rubber has sharp edges that actually bite to ice, they carve deep markings to ice from my experience, I have even made burnout on ice with 'smoke' and all, that much friction.

This of course applies only to Continental Winter Viking 5 as my experiences come from those. costs bit over 100€/each, but I did use those all summer too and those don't wear much in use, amazing tire, imo.

Any real winter tire is however a lot better on ice than summer tire, on ice shore number matters the most together with those 'blades' ehm. tiny cuts in thread very close to each other, idea is that those have sharp corner that cuts into ice, modern good tire should have almost whole surface filled with those.

Image

How thread will look and how knobbly it is does nothing on ice, you need those blade things which name I don't know at English and then soft rubber with silica compound.
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macplaxton
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by macplaxton » 22 Dec 2010 05:09 pm

jtbo wrote:you need those blade things which name I don't know at English
Sipes? or do you mean something else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siping_%28rubber%29

(I didn't need to look the term up as I'm sure I learnt it as a nipper from "The AA Book of the Car" (1st Edition with loads of Austin 1100s and Ford Cortina Mk2s)
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jtbo
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Re: snow FAIL!

Post by jtbo » 22 Dec 2010 05:23 pm

macplaxton wrote:
jtbo wrote:you need those blade things which name I don't know at English
Sipes? or do you mean something else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siping_%28rubber%29

(I didn't need to look the term up as I'm sure I learnt it as a nipper from "The AA Book of the Car" (1st Edition with loads of Austin 1100s and Ford Cortina Mk2s)
Yes, that is the proper term I believe, thanks, I learned something new today too :D
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