Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

A global place for general discussion (Volvo, V3M or non-Volvo related topics).
Please introduce yourself here, your Volvo 300 hobby...
NO technical support, parts requests or car advertisements here
volvosneverdie
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9143
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 04:22 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Toon

Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by volvosneverdie » 16 Jan 2011 06:18 pm

I.E. shifting without the use of a clutch.

Advice from the folk with more experience than me required. And I know almost everyone here falls into that catagory.

My clutch is on its way so ive been experimenting a bit.

Can feel my way in and out of 1st, 2nd but im a bit cack-handed after that.

Is there a formula (I.E. change to 2nd at 2k etc) or is it just grope and fumble like a sat night segs session in a bus shelter?
Image

User avatar
volvodspec
Posts: 1921
Joined: 06 Dec 2008 09:35 pm
Location: Netherlands.
Contact:

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by volvodspec » 16 Jan 2011 06:35 pm

the large variety of final drive diff- ratio is a bit of a bugger, there isn't a standard for each 300
what helps, is when going down a gear, pull it in neutral; then rev it and gently see if you can select the lower gear..
on going up a gear you'll have to drop the rpm's, but don't give it a chance to idle because that's most likely to low.

downside to the upshifting part is that you stress the gearboxes sprockets and synchro's a lot so i'd definatly want to change the clutch anyway soon or you'll have even more work

volvosneverdie
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9143
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 04:22 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Toon

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by volvosneverdie » 16 Jan 2011 06:40 pm

volvodspec wrote:1. what helps, is when going down a gear, pull it in neutral; then rev it and gently see if you can select the lower gear..
2. on going up a gear you'll have to drop the rpm's, but don't give it a chance to idle because that's most likely to low.
1.Thats what Ive been doing with limited success.

2. Thanks dude, I didnt know that about upshifting, I was trying reving higher.
Thats really good to know.
Image

Ride_on
Posts: 2265
Joined: 26 May 2009 05:34 pm
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by Ride_on » 16 Jan 2011 07:35 pm

Had to do this myself, I have a vague memory that the rev counter and speedo point in the same angle in 3rd. 4th would be near idle at 30mph typically. You just need a couple of reference points.

A little pressure on the gear lever helps, rev up and catch on the way down if you miss on the upshift.
1980 345 DL_______1987 360 GLE (project car restored to GLT spec and B230FT'd)
1984 360 GLT______1987 360 GLT
1983 360 GLS______1989 360 GLE
1985 340 GL_______1986 340 1.4
1985 360 GLS______1995 940 SE 2.3 Turbo Estate (daily)
1987 340 GL 1.7

User avatar
Chris_C
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9600
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 11:53 pm
Location: South Coast, UK

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by Chris_C » 16 Jan 2011 07:49 pm

Once you get the idea (i.e. the revs are lower for a higher gear and vice versa) fumble until you stop being that teenager ;)
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

User avatar
jtbo
Posts: 5805
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 03:50 am
Location: Finland, middle of nowhere
Contact:

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by jtbo » 17 Jan 2011 01:33 am

What you need is gentle touch and feel, don't force it in, but gently probe, it will fell in when situation is proper.

Getting it out without clutch is easy, just lighten up throttle a bit and gently tap it out.

Now when you start put it in, you put it to 'lips', you can feel how there is little resistance, just keep it on there and when revs are right you feel it easing off, then push it in with determination but without rushing or forcing.

Proper rpm comes with experimenting, but you can get close approximate from diff + gear ratio and of course tire size as that affects it too.

Just remember that from 2nd to 3rd rpm drop is quite large and that with lower rpm it is easier that higher rpm.

Basic idea is to put engine to rpm which it will be when that next gear is in.

You can also do half clutching, which helps a bit, just quick tap to half way when putting into gear, don't bother clutching when taking off the gear as that requires only slight pressure and lift and it will come off by itself.

Hmm, I wonder, maybe I should... Nah, you probably can figure that out yourself :wink:
Volvo 360GL -88 -under restoration-
Volvo 343DL vario -81 -running- Image
Volvo 240 Diesel -83 -undecided-
Citroen ZX Dturbo -97 -daily- ImageImage

sven360
Posts: 1856
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 11:36 pm
Location: up shitcreek

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by sven360 » 17 Jan 2011 08:38 pm

Have you considered buying a clutch to cure the problem?? sm14
Keeper of The Knights' of Bushido-lest we forget

Write it in your heart.
Stand by the code and it will stand by you.

Ask no more and give no less than honesty,courage,loyalty,generosity and fairness.

The code of the West.

volvosneverdie
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9143
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 04:22 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Toon

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by volvosneverdie » 17 Jan 2011 08:52 pm

sven360 wrote:Have you considered buying a clutch to cure the problem?? sm14
Clutches are expensive.

Men to make clutches be on a car are more expensive.

I am saving. But a bit of knowledge never goes wrong.

A lot of knowledge would be ideal, but baby steps.
Image

User avatar
V6 Man
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 1204
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 11:36 pm
Location: Belper, Derbyshire UK
Contact:

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by V6 Man » 17 Jan 2011 10:27 pm

If (and it's a big 'if') you manage to rev match perfectly and slot the next gear in you are doing the synchros out of a job. Thus over several miles your gearbox is fubar'd.
Terms and conditions apply. This post may go down as well as up. Regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Hard hats to be worn. No reversing without a banksman. No admittance to unauthorized persons. Stop that. Put that down. Leave that alone.

volvosneverdie
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9143
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 04:22 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Toon

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by volvosneverdie » 17 Jan 2011 10:30 pm

V6 Man wrote:If (and it's a big 'if') you manage to rev match perfectly and slot the next gear in you are doing the synchros out of a job. Thus over several miles your gearbox is fubar'd.
Yeah. Someone else said that too.

New clutch is moved up the list to Next Thing To Buy status.
Image

sven360
Posts: 1856
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 11:36 pm
Location: up shitcreek

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by sven360 » 17 Jan 2011 10:34 pm

Fj is cheap is he not?

Gearboxes on the other hand aren't.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission#Clutch
Keeper of The Knights' of Bushido-lest we forget

Write it in your heart.
Stand by the code and it will stand by you.

Ask no more and give no less than honesty,courage,loyalty,generosity and fairness.

The code of the West.

volvosneverdie
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9143
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 04:22 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Toon

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by volvosneverdie » 17 Jan 2011 10:45 pm

sven360 wrote:Fj is cheap is he not?
Sir, you offend.

:lol:
Image

User avatar
jtbo
Posts: 5805
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 03:50 am
Location: Finland, middle of nowhere
Contact:

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by jtbo » 17 Jan 2011 10:50 pm

How about clutch adjustment?

In some vehicles there is possibility to adjust clutch which may or may not extend life of clutch.

There are some videos to keep you entertained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLw0hAtOik4

Judging by titles those related videos are something that should be essential viewing for anyone having a car, even it is perhaps bit american view to subject.
Volvo 360GL -88 -under restoration-
Volvo 343DL vario -81 -running- Image
Volvo 240 Diesel -83 -undecided-
Citroen ZX Dturbo -97 -daily- ImageImage

User avatar
filthyjohn
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 2693
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 09:07 pm
Location: Sunderland, Ringpiece Of England

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by filthyjohn » 18 Jan 2011 12:26 am

What are the symtoms Ben? My cav has a crunchy shift but I'm choosing to ignore it. :D
'87 Nissan Sunny
'95 945 LPT
'90 340 3dr
'87 360 GLT
'87 765 TIC
'75 Manta A
'70 Rover P5 V8
'67 MGB GT
'62 amazon 2dr

volvosneverdie
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9143
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 04:22 pm
Location: Newcastle Upon Toon

Re: Tell me about...... Speed match shifting.

Post by volvosneverdie » 18 Jan 2011 06:45 am

filthyjohn wrote:What are the symtoms Ben? My cav has a crunchy shift but I'm choosing to ignore it. :D
Pedal is superhigh.
Power feeds in fine gradually.
Boot it and you get lots of increasing revs with little or no increase in speed.
Image

Post Reply