Your experiences with the 700/900 series

[trabitom99]

Hi,

I just wondered what people's experiences with the 700/900 series are? I checked one out last Saturday - I'm keeping my options open as it's looking increasingly unlikely that I'll be able to save my rusty daily




Very clean, no rust, non-working air conditioning (I'm used to that ) 3 spd + overdrive auto box, 113 bhp.

I loved it to look at and to sit in (boxy old-style V700 <1989 shape, red interior). But to drive? OMG it was slow. I don't think I could live with that ... And turbos are quite hard to find over here.

Tom

[germ]

we had a 740gl , run forever! built like tanks and ultra reliable, things rarely wear out, the worst thing to do however is the handbrake as the rear brake is drum/disc hybrid which makes it difficult to get to. other than this there is an ignition heat sink that can have a hissy fit (it corrodes and refuses to make contact with the body of car, sanding it flat isn't a solution but one from a scrapper in good nick would fix it.

2.3 red block with zenith twin chock carb with 5 speed box ftw personally i like the shape and the comfy cruiserness

[volvosneverdie]

Tom, I loved my/Johns 740.

Very light steering (easier to park anywhere, than my tiny non-pas pug.)
Very comfortable, basicly a moving living-room.
Most comfy drive ive ever had (though I havnt driven much! )

The only downside was MPG. With an auto-box I think I was getting 15-20 iirc.
Id have another if it was manual. But then again, then I thought, you might as well go turbo with a 940............

[trabitom99]

... with 5 speed box ftw

Id have another if it was manual.

I think that was the car's biggest downside. I hated the auto box. Fine around town but on autobahn inclines I kept going for the "overdrive off" button and the car didn't sound too happy about that ...

The MPG won't be any worse than my badly-tuned daily though, and I absolutely loved the look of the thing. It had the usual V700 problems though, sagging headlining and a mad fuel gauge.

Tom

[Speedy88]

I had a 240 GLT auto with the 2.3 NA engine. It wasn't exactly slow but it wasn't too efficient. As far as I know the diesels aren't too much better either. I've heard nothing but good things about 7/9s though, plus they always seem to turn up in scrappies still mint with 300k+ on the clock.

[germ]

Hi Tom

700 or 900 for that matter really needs more power than a 2.0 can provide (unless turbo) 2.3 manual is more "perky" the turbo is a real pleasure to drive aswell and the mpg of the turbo is defo better than the auto 2.0/2.3 and on the autoban it would be possible to drive "offboost" which would gain you a few mpg, my fathers friend has one and the mpg at constant speed is better than a n/a 2.0! possibly due to better atomization/ turbo cam?

diesel 700's are rubbish iirc because of the vw diesel engines cracking head problem,poor fuel econ (for a diesel) and loud tractor noises.

the fuel gauge issue comes from sender ground problems and saggy roofs seem to be from a combination of dampness/then nasty mold , resulting in steam cleaning which ruins it. with our 740 the person we bought it off said the roof lining was perfect before being cleaned!!

apart from these.. minor problems 740s are great!

William

[SteveP]

Forget the N/A's for a start, there's just no point as the turbo engine is still simple, parts are plentiful, they're about the same on fuel and much quicker.

In some ways my 940 (Wentworth 2.0T) was better than my S70, it certainly felt a lot better put together (and mine was a very abused example) but they do feel a bit dated interior wise. You can also run the turbos at about 12psi with no issues and they shuffle along rather well with that Get one on LH2.4 (assume you got that in Germany?) as the earlier stuff again isn't as economical. I got an average of about 28-35mpg and it was always driven hard. Definitely get one with the M90 gearbox as opposed to the M4x series as it's stronger and a much nicer shift. It has marginally better gear ratios too (albeit not by much, they're still not brilliant)

Fuel gauges/senders break, estates can have saggy headlinings and turbos can have cracked exhaust manifolds, smokey turbos - all easy to fix really.

A suggestion... 960/S90 Manual?

[foggyjames]

They're pretty solid. Excellent rust-wise - just watch for front floor pans and leading edges of rear arches.

A B230E/F 5-speed isn't too bad, and that limo returned very healthy numbers on its trip to Germany (B230E auto). Forget B200E/Fs...and to be honest, the B200FT in the early 940s is pretty dismal compared with the B230FT.

If a late 940 turbo is in budget, and you like the style, I'd get one...even if you swapped a pre-facelift 740 front end onto it 'for the look'. It's pretty much a bolt-on as long as it's a "40"...960s are totally different at the front.

cheers

James

[jtbo]

7 is perhaps bit cheaper to run, 9 being more comfy so also bit heavier too.

Stay away from 2.0 litre motors, those are too small for what those cars weight, 9 will probably never rust if mudflaps are used and not crashed.

There is of course italian version of turbo, 2 litre 16 valve turbo with healthy hp readings, B204GT, but running costs might be bit high, lot of tires and petrol as it might be too 'sporty'.

7 is ok, but it is noisy and rather agricultural compared to 9 which still has some of those features, 7 is not very huge leap from 2, but 9 is quite different animal, steering seem to be not connected to wheels, however car seem to turn without much of feedback, speed is not felt like in earlier models, but very comfy.

I think that 9 series diesel was around 1500kg, that is net weight and weight really feels, it is not a sports car, don't know if petrol versions are better, but it is quite bit more than 7 or 2, early 343 weights about half from that?

There is one problem with turbo version with M90 transmission, it just begs bigger turbo, bigger cooler, more boost and proper engine management, I think it is not too difficult to get that 300 hp out from them, much more when touching internals? Bye bye fuel economy and welcome tyre seller, he is your 2nd best friend after petrol station man

[trabitom99]

Thanks for all that info ...

TBH I am pretty sold on the old style look of the <=1989 740 series. It's good news that you can swap the front over, but then you have the "wrong" rear end too ... The boxy exterior combined with the interior (particularly in red ) looks "classicly" dated rather than just "boring 90s dated" if you know what I mean. Later 940 / 960s look OK I suppose, the worst is that "in between" 740 model (1990 - 1991?) which was only sold for a very short time.

30 mins test drive were enough to tell me that all the plus points weren't enough to compensate the weedy engine and slush box though. I'm not sure what engine that was:
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/detai ... =140837868
B230E? but it felt really slow compared with a B200F 360. Maybe a ~130bhp version is better, or a 16V (http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showD ... =144772405), or of course a turbo, but they are very difficult with air con and without a million miles on the clock.

I'll keep my eyes open for cars near me. The 7/900 cars are hugely under-valued ATM, compared with 200s. It won't take long till prices start rising ...

Tom

[SteveP]

I have to agree, there's definitely more appeal with the earlier front end 700's now days (5 years ago I wouldnt've said the same though) - but they're coming round! Didn't you get the 16v turbo over there?

[trabitom99]

I have no idea! I don't know much about 7/900s except that they were sold with a confusing amount of engines

While we're on the subject of looks, I think S/V90s are just plain ugly compared with early 740 / 760s ...

Tom

[foggyjames]

*How* much are those cars?! Crikey, they'd be more like 1/3rd of those prices here!

The B230E (mechanical injection) is fairly swift. Avoid B200s and carbed 230s. The B230Fs are more fuel efficient, but also give away some peak power. Torque should be similar, though. The 16v is a peach, but more fiddly to maintain. Very unusual to find a pre-facelift 16v. I've only ever seen one other (and that one was in the US). The overwhelming majority have the 940 front end (90-92 740s either had the "softened" front you pictured for base models, or the 760/940 front for 16vs and Turbos).

I didn't realise you wanted a saloon...obviously estates are essentially identical between 7/9s, but totally agree about mixing the old front and newer rear being a no-no.

In other words...sounds like you do want a 740, if you want the boxy back end. I'd look at three models - GLE (B230E), GLT (B234F - 16v) and Turbo Intercooler. Red interiors generally came on early 740s (circa 85) and 760s. Don't rule out 760s - the 83-85 looks like a 740, and came in Turbo guise...while the 83 model has the super-desirable fully-forged B23FT. Another subtle detail on pre-facelift 760s is that the lower sections of the bumpers are painted. They also have more chrome than SteveP's fantasy spinnaz collection scrapbook.



cheers

James

[jtbo]

Tom, 240 turbo and 360GLT are surprisingly close in performance, all NA 700 and 900 series cars are lot slower than those.

[trabitom99]

That early 760 in the pic looks fantastic, it'd almost be a shame to use that as a daily beater! A classic in the making, definitely ...

The white one I looked at would have cost 1200 Euros as it stands (1 years' TÜV, worn tyres) or 1400 with 2yrs new TÜV. Used car prices tend to be higher in Germany than in the UK, and that white one was a very good example. Also, it's not easy to find one with air con.

I'd go for an estate too, but I particularly like the boxy look of the saloons, they tend to be in much better condition as well. From what you're all saying though, it'd have to be a 16V or a Turbo, I don't really want to be going any slower than I am now in my 360

It's all a theoretical discussion by now though. It's 90% sure my daily for the next few years will be the green MkIII GLT ...

Tom