Well, following on from the earlier discussions, and various MSN chats, I've been thinking about if we should take this (and the other) 300 series communities beyond the point of being a virtual community. I'm specifically thinking in terms of (a) a workshop / (b) storage facility, and (c) a range of products. Let's tackle these in order:
a) A number of us distrust the average garage, but don't have access to the facillities necessary to carry out much of the work necessary to maintain our cars. If a centrally located 'pool garage', could be provided members could make use of a series of tools, including those specific to the 300 series.
b) It would be wise, really, to start stockpiling parts. Panels, drivetrains....and complete cars, both for parts and to be saved from the crusher. You'd need to keep a tight lid on it, else it might rapidly get out of hand, but genuinely rare cars could be saved (re: that tidy blue 343 Vario which ultimately got crushed). I'm thinking more 'dream garage' than museum.
c) Various parts are now being (re)produced, and it would be good to set up a single, central resource, such that these may be promoted and distributed as widely as possible, keeping as many 300s on the road as we can. I'm not talking about starting a business as such, but some mechanism by which a listing of all which is available is clearly defined. We could take this in a number of directions, of course...
Parts a) and b) might sound like a pipe dream, but there is method in my madness. A number of us (both from V3M and the wider Volvo community) have been discussing this possibility for some time, and there are enough people interested in investing in a facility of this nature to make it something which warrants some investigation.
I'm not quite sure where I was heading with this thread...but that's your job, I guess! Comments please...
cheers
James
Suggestions: Future roles of the 300 series clubs
-
foggyjames
- *** V3M DONOR ***
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: 29 Jan 2004 04:20 am
- Location: Nottingham, UK
Suggestions: Future roles of the 300 series clubs
VOC 300-series Register Keeper
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
Mornin' James,
I like your ideas - I have been giving such things much thought of late.
As with many older 'classic' cars in the past individuals and owners clubs have inevitabley been thrown back on their own resources as support from the manufacturers has dwindled. 300 owners (and other 'older' Volvo owners) are now facing this - perhaps earlier than we had hoped but it was going to happen one day. Our problem is exacerbated by the general longevity of the product (which regretably has no place in the modern commercial world).
If we, as a group of enthusiasts, wish to continue with our interests I think we too must become more than 'just' a forum for chatting and become more of a 'real' club. (just as the VOC has grown).
I know there are 'differences' between V3M and some VOC members but VOC has some good ideas (parts location service, tool hire scheme etc.).
I may have been premature, being a relative newcomer to V3M, but some while ago I suggested to Aymat that a tool loan/hire scheme would be a good idea (one reason why I have developed my CVT tester). So far - no comment.
If you look at my 'Gasket' thread you will see I have decided to start a 'gasket bank' to file sample gaskets that can, in the future, be used to produce templates if required - and have suggested how this might progress.
The idea of a workshop is a fine idea but may have to be considered by regions (can't see someone in Cornwall coming over to Suffolk to use my 3t trolly jack or hinge pin remover). Tool loan idea is excellent but again there are practical difficulties. I would be happy to loan any of my gear to a 'regular' V3M bod - but to someone who joined yesterday - I just don't know. (I've spent over 30years collecting the stuff).
What I do think is important is to form an archive of technical info. At the moment there is an enormous amount of information spread all over the place in posts over several years that has become 'lost'.
We really do need a way of collating it all (preferably 'filed' using the 'green book' group system. Anyone with a transmission problem - look in group 4 etc.). I know Aymat has started his tech resource section (but he has had my CVT article over 3months now, (and my accessory fitting instructions scans) and still no sign.
Sorry Aymat I know you are very busy.
It may also be a good idea to draw closer to another enthusiasts club for mutual assistance - Daf is the obvious choice.
At this moment in time (hate that phrase) 300s are too old to be of interest to the manufacturer but too young to be regarded as a true 'classic' of commercial interest to suppliers to the 'vintage' market.
Anyway that's my hap'orths worth - this affects all of us - lets have some more comments and ideas!!
Mac.
I like your ideas - I have been giving such things much thought of late.
As with many older 'classic' cars in the past individuals and owners clubs have inevitabley been thrown back on their own resources as support from the manufacturers has dwindled. 300 owners (and other 'older' Volvo owners) are now facing this - perhaps earlier than we had hoped but it was going to happen one day. Our problem is exacerbated by the general longevity of the product (which regretably has no place in the modern commercial world).
If we, as a group of enthusiasts, wish to continue with our interests I think we too must become more than 'just' a forum for chatting and become more of a 'real' club. (just as the VOC has grown).
I know there are 'differences' between V3M and some VOC members but VOC has some good ideas (parts location service, tool hire scheme etc.).
I may have been premature, being a relative newcomer to V3M, but some while ago I suggested to Aymat that a tool loan/hire scheme would be a good idea (one reason why I have developed my CVT tester). So far - no comment.
If you look at my 'Gasket' thread you will see I have decided to start a 'gasket bank' to file sample gaskets that can, in the future, be used to produce templates if required - and have suggested how this might progress.
The idea of a workshop is a fine idea but may have to be considered by regions (can't see someone in Cornwall coming over to Suffolk to use my 3t trolly jack or hinge pin remover). Tool loan idea is excellent but again there are practical difficulties. I would be happy to loan any of my gear to a 'regular' V3M bod - but to someone who joined yesterday - I just don't know. (I've spent over 30years collecting the stuff).
What I do think is important is to form an archive of technical info. At the moment there is an enormous amount of information spread all over the place in posts over several years that has become 'lost'.
We really do need a way of collating it all (preferably 'filed' using the 'green book' group system. Anyone with a transmission problem - look in group 4 etc.). I know Aymat has started his tech resource section (but he has had my CVT article over 3months now, (and my accessory fitting instructions scans) and still no sign.
Sorry Aymat I know you are very busy.
It may also be a good idea to draw closer to another enthusiasts club for mutual assistance - Daf is the obvious choice.
At this moment in time (hate that phrase) 300s are too old to be of interest to the manufacturer but too young to be regarded as a true 'classic' of commercial interest to suppliers to the 'vintage' market.
Anyway that's my hap'orths worth - this affects all of us - lets have some more comments and ideas!!
Mac.
The workshop/ tool idea is a nice one, but the spread of members in all parts of the country is a problem, especially if the car isn't running well, and a 3 mile trip to the garage is far enough. Also, cost is going to be an issue. Would all entrants pay an equal part, what about arguments over ownership, maybe everyone own one tool, a charge to use facilities?
Anyway, most garages are reliable, and if you get to trust one you should have no troubles. As Mac says, information is very valuable though, concentrate on this.
Recently I wanted some info that I knew was posted somewhere, but finding it was hard. Any gems should be saved in a special section, away from chat. This would be a virtual book, that could easily be referenced.
Spare parts. It would be great to save spare parts, but I think centralised is the wrong route. Transportation storage etc. There are a lot of us, and if we all had a cubic metre/yard box of bits, there'd be a lot. I suggest a sticky in the offer section broken down into sections, Engine, panels, electrical, whole cars. Then if a member obtains a part, it can be put here. Then if someone wants something, there is one list to check through (with catagories), rather than searching old offers posts
Re-produced route. Again, I say un-cetralised, with one member in charge of one part. Say Mick creates some V3M business cards. He orders and stores them and distributes to members. If Mac gets a new gasket made, he orders and stores. In this case, perhaps a donation could be made from a central V3M fund, as Mac will probably have to store severall of these for a long while untill needed, so he isn't out of pocket. This would then be re-paid when more are sold. Also storage could be moved to other parts of the country at meets. (To reduce transport and storage costs)
Anyway, most garages are reliable, and if you get to trust one you should have no troubles. As Mac says, information is very valuable though, concentrate on this.
Recently I wanted some info that I knew was posted somewhere, but finding it was hard. Any gems should be saved in a special section, away from chat. This would be a virtual book, that could easily be referenced.
Spare parts. It would be great to save spare parts, but I think centralised is the wrong route. Transportation storage etc. There are a lot of us, and if we all had a cubic metre/yard box of bits, there'd be a lot. I suggest a sticky in the offer section broken down into sections, Engine, panels, electrical, whole cars. Then if a member obtains a part, it can be put here. Then if someone wants something, there is one list to check through (with catagories), rather than searching old offers posts
Re-produced route. Again, I say un-cetralised, with one member in charge of one part. Say Mick creates some V3M business cards. He orders and stores them and distributes to members. If Mac gets a new gasket made, he orders and stores. In this case, perhaps a donation could be made from a central V3M fund, as Mac will probably have to store severall of these for a long while untill needed, so he isn't out of pocket. This would then be re-paid when more are sold. Also storage could be moved to other parts of the country at meets. (To reduce transport and storage costs)
Although i am not a member of the v3m i certianly would want to be, i am at present with the DAF owners club who are a friendly and enthuisastic club, i am sure that they would be willing to advise any help you would want on starting up as a club.
They have parts schemes and rallys also concours events and technical days, the subs for the year are £30 but as we are a small club this gives prizes and a very nice magazine and also invests in new spares, there are always people at hand to advise and untill a couple of years ago ther was a dedicted garage in london untill the guy died (it was his bussiness) but no one has since taken that up.
besides the 300 series must stay alive! (even if it is to keep jeremy clarkson annoyed) it is car starting to disapear fast from our roads
paul
They have parts schemes and rallys also concours events and technical days, the subs for the year are £30 but as we are a small club this gives prizes and a very nice magazine and also invests in new spares, there are always people at hand to advise and untill a couple of years ago ther was a dedicted garage in london untill the guy died (it was his bussiness) but no one has since taken that up.
besides the 300 series must stay alive! (even if it is to keep jeremy clarkson annoyed) it is car starting to disapear fast from our roads
paul
The trouble is MJ, alot of us - already have this and lots lots more (me included) and there's only a limited amount of space you can use in small sheds/cupboards etc! I can't see a problem of having a centralised facility - it might just mean you might need to drive your car a bitmoreMJ wrote: Spare parts. It would be great to save spare parts, but I think centralised is the wrong route. Transportation storage etc. There are a lot of us, and if we all had a cubic metre/yard box of bits, there'd be a lot.
And garages reliable? Some maybe, but they don't know the 300 series as well as we do collectively.
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux
-
petefarrell360
- *** V3M DONOR ***
- Posts: 3083
- Joined: 11 Oct 2004 07:12 pm
- Location: Bucks, UK
There are a lot of excellent ideas floating about in this thread, and over Lunch yesterday, James, Andy, Steve and myself were discussing the issue.
Yesterday was, as you might see it, a smaller version of parts of the suggestions, in as much as I've saved a few 360's from being crushed, so I have some useful parts stacked up. The time has sadly come though to condense the vehicles to provide some space, but nether the less I had parts available for Andy, James, Steve and myself when we had a mini meet yesterday. We made use of each others tools, equipment etc, my drive space, and then my workshop inside in the dry to tackle jobs later. We had the knowledge of Andy, and our own previous experience and knowledge, (Mr Painter certainly know's his diff and gearbox filler plug torque settings!).
So with four people to tackle jobs, two teams of two emerged at some points, while Andy and myself worked on his car, James and Steve tackled Steve's car and carried out some testing and then went about sorting the problem, with parts available from a car of mine to replace or test for improvements.
In the past we have used my workshop and Andy helped me change the clutch in the Vario, we made up replicas of the special tools, with the aid of Mac's drawings and info.
There is the question of who can we realistically open this service too, as we don't want it to be a small special group, just as they've been on V3M for so many years etc, as someone with a genuine need may join V3M as they've been recommended to try us as their car has a major fault. They shouldn't be made to wait so long before they have access to the services, however, should they then pay, and how can we trust them? I think as long as they seem to have a genuine interest and one of the established members or organisers is always present, as we can't just give someone the keys to a workshop to help themselves as it were!
One problem we do need to be aware of is the health and safety matters with working on cars. Between friends, helping each other out there are times when you can do certain things that as long as you all take great care, then it's safer than the correct proceedure in some instances, in a contradictive sense! For instance at the weekend we did have to move one of my cars sideways, with no rear exle, but in the way in which it was done was safe enough, and was supported on blocks in the end. If people have to pay money, even to cover costs, there is the possibility that somewhere along the line we could come unstuck.
And also, I hate to throw one more problem in, is that if the reproduced parts fail in anyway, prematurely, or cause damage to the vehicle etc, who would be responsible? If it could be worded into an agreement before buying parts that due to the goodwill and nature of the scheme, responsibilty lies with the owner for using the parts, maybe at their own risk? Being in business myself, it's something you must cover, otherwise it may come back to bite you on the rear end some time later.
Mac, it's great work on your CVT tester, and when the Vario is MOT'd etc I'd like to come over and put it to good use if that's ok!? There are other special items amongst V3M members, a huge resource of information, both walking around, and on here in a written format. Nothing beats having someone who knows their stuff on hand able to guide, help, and oversee something when you've not done it before.
Having never done a gearbox swap before, I'd now quite happily attempt one on my own car, but that's only thanks to Andy passing on his knowledge and I assisted in his swap at the weekend. Hands on experience counts.
MJ raises a good point about the location, if your car is cronically ill, and it won't actually drive, then yes, there lies a problem, however trailer hire isn't too bad for a day, take it to the centrally located workshop and there the car stays until it's fixed! £40 approx to hire the trailer, fuel for an able towing vehichle, if your Volvo 300 means enough to you, it's a small price to pay to have something repaired by people who know the cars far better than a garage.
I was discussing this with Steve earlier, I'd not let any of my cars anywhere near a garage. Judging by the simple task of jacking a car up, it appears that most garages are incapable of doing so without damaging a 300. All our cars, possibly not Andy's, that met at the weekend, have seriously damaged chassis from the fact that they don't care when they stick a trolley jack under, or a lift, and put it straight onto the box sections, crushing them, as they aren't the proper places to jack, at least not without spreading the load and protecting them. If a task like that results in damage to your car, I'm not going to trust them with anything remotely complex!
Look at my variomatic for instance, a so called garage/MOT testing centre couldn't diagnose perished fuel hoses, robbed an old lady for a new battery, dizzy cap etc, then burnt a 10000 mile clutch out during the MOT. Then they had the cheek to condemn the car and tell her it was no good to anyone and to scrap it.
It is for this reason if I can, I will work on my own cars. If I don't know how to do something, I'd like to learn. And if I don't have access to the tools, I'd either like to make or find something to do the job, or hire such an item. If I can't find a part, I'd like to either be able to make it, find a scrap car as a donor vehicle, or have a source such as V3M where by I can find it or get a replacement item such as Mac's gaskets. And then if I didn't have the space ro facilities, a garage or workshop would be more than welcome.
I think that it's a fantasic idea, and it needs to be seriously spoken about, a good group of interested and able people put together to take responsibility. A proper agreement drawn up in order to make sure nothing gets out of hand, and then the task of finding such a place and paying for it needs sorting. If we managed to raise the money for the hosting of V3M via a donation scheme, a few hardcore members donated some money, and hey presto, V3M continues. If a similar thing happened, whereby those investing money and organising have control, then anyone wishing to use the facilities pays their way for the useage, or if it's agreed by everyone and they want a more longterm involvement, they could be able to also invest in order to become more involved.
The bottom line is that there is a lack of knowledge and care in many garages (not all!) the supply of parts is fading fast, and they aren't yet classics. The only way they'll become classics is if we maintain our cars and help them survive to reach their deserved classic status. We need to prevent rare cars being scrapped for silly reasons and ultimately enjoy them.
(I apologise for such a rambling post, but I feel strongly about the matter and think we need to do something soon!)
Pete
Yesterday was, as you might see it, a smaller version of parts of the suggestions, in as much as I've saved a few 360's from being crushed, so I have some useful parts stacked up. The time has sadly come though to condense the vehicles to provide some space, but nether the less I had parts available for Andy, James, Steve and myself when we had a mini meet yesterday. We made use of each others tools, equipment etc, my drive space, and then my workshop inside in the dry to tackle jobs later. We had the knowledge of Andy, and our own previous experience and knowledge, (Mr Painter certainly know's his diff and gearbox filler plug torque settings!).
So with four people to tackle jobs, two teams of two emerged at some points, while Andy and myself worked on his car, James and Steve tackled Steve's car and carried out some testing and then went about sorting the problem, with parts available from a car of mine to replace or test for improvements.
In the past we have used my workshop and Andy helped me change the clutch in the Vario, we made up replicas of the special tools, with the aid of Mac's drawings and info.
There is the question of who can we realistically open this service too, as we don't want it to be a small special group, just as they've been on V3M for so many years etc, as someone with a genuine need may join V3M as they've been recommended to try us as their car has a major fault. They shouldn't be made to wait so long before they have access to the services, however, should they then pay, and how can we trust them? I think as long as they seem to have a genuine interest and one of the established members or organisers is always present, as we can't just give someone the keys to a workshop to help themselves as it were!
One problem we do need to be aware of is the health and safety matters with working on cars. Between friends, helping each other out there are times when you can do certain things that as long as you all take great care, then it's safer than the correct proceedure in some instances, in a contradictive sense! For instance at the weekend we did have to move one of my cars sideways, with no rear exle, but in the way in which it was done was safe enough, and was supported on blocks in the end. If people have to pay money, even to cover costs, there is the possibility that somewhere along the line we could come unstuck.
And also, I hate to throw one more problem in, is that if the reproduced parts fail in anyway, prematurely, or cause damage to the vehicle etc, who would be responsible? If it could be worded into an agreement before buying parts that due to the goodwill and nature of the scheme, responsibilty lies with the owner for using the parts, maybe at their own risk? Being in business myself, it's something you must cover, otherwise it may come back to bite you on the rear end some time later.
Mac, it's great work on your CVT tester, and when the Vario is MOT'd etc I'd like to come over and put it to good use if that's ok!? There are other special items amongst V3M members, a huge resource of information, both walking around, and on here in a written format. Nothing beats having someone who knows their stuff on hand able to guide, help, and oversee something when you've not done it before.
Having never done a gearbox swap before, I'd now quite happily attempt one on my own car, but that's only thanks to Andy passing on his knowledge and I assisted in his swap at the weekend. Hands on experience counts.
MJ raises a good point about the location, if your car is cronically ill, and it won't actually drive, then yes, there lies a problem, however trailer hire isn't too bad for a day, take it to the centrally located workshop and there the car stays until it's fixed! £40 approx to hire the trailer, fuel for an able towing vehichle, if your Volvo 300 means enough to you, it's a small price to pay to have something repaired by people who know the cars far better than a garage.
I was discussing this with Steve earlier, I'd not let any of my cars anywhere near a garage. Judging by the simple task of jacking a car up, it appears that most garages are incapable of doing so without damaging a 300. All our cars, possibly not Andy's, that met at the weekend, have seriously damaged chassis from the fact that they don't care when they stick a trolley jack under, or a lift, and put it straight onto the box sections, crushing them, as they aren't the proper places to jack, at least not without spreading the load and protecting them. If a task like that results in damage to your car, I'm not going to trust them with anything remotely complex!
Look at my variomatic for instance, a so called garage/MOT testing centre couldn't diagnose perished fuel hoses, robbed an old lady for a new battery, dizzy cap etc, then burnt a 10000 mile clutch out during the MOT. Then they had the cheek to condemn the car and tell her it was no good to anyone and to scrap it.
It is for this reason if I can, I will work on my own cars. If I don't know how to do something, I'd like to learn. And if I don't have access to the tools, I'd either like to make or find something to do the job, or hire such an item. If I can't find a part, I'd like to either be able to make it, find a scrap car as a donor vehicle, or have a source such as V3M where by I can find it or get a replacement item such as Mac's gaskets. And then if I didn't have the space ro facilities, a garage or workshop would be more than welcome.
I think that it's a fantasic idea, and it needs to be seriously spoken about, a good group of interested and able people put together to take responsibility. A proper agreement drawn up in order to make sure nothing gets out of hand, and then the task of finding such a place and paying for it needs sorting. If we managed to raise the money for the hosting of V3M via a donation scheme, a few hardcore members donated some money, and hey presto, V3M continues. If a similar thing happened, whereby those investing money and organising have control, then anyone wishing to use the facilities pays their way for the useage, or if it's agreed by everyone and they want a more longterm involvement, they could be able to also invest in order to become more involved.
The bottom line is that there is a lack of knowledge and care in many garages (not all!) the supply of parts is fading fast, and they aren't yet classics. The only way they'll become classics is if we maintain our cars and help them survive to reach their deserved classic status. We need to prevent rare cars being scrapped for silly reasons and ultimately enjoy them.
(I apologise for such a rambling post, but I feel strongly about the matter and think we need to do something soon!)
Pete
-
foggyjames
- *** V3M DONOR ***
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: 29 Jan 2004 04:20 am
- Location: Nottingham, UK
Oooh, lots of comments, thanks guys! I think Pete's right - what we did yesterday was a good 'model' of what I have in mind - pooled facillities, expertise, and labour...and a fun time, of course 
Regarding access, I think a 'core' group of 5-10 people should 'run' this scheme, but with access for all. As for V3M membership - anyone who joins the forum is a 'member'. That's as formal as it gets at the moment. After a month of the forum being down, some of us chipped in a fiver to get us some better hosting, and that happened to be primarily the 'regulars', but there's no preferential treatment here - and certainly no assumption that you should donate. In fact right at the moment I'd suggest people don't - we don't have anything to spend the money on!
There are a great many factors to consider and discuss at length (most likely over a pint or 5), but this was an attempt to 'test the water'. Clearly we can't cater for all regions, but based on what a pleasure it was to use Pete's facillities yesterday* I think a storage/workshop facility ought to be set up somewhere in the M4/M5/M1 triangle (using the M42 to close the triangle...basically London, Bristol, and Nottingham as the 'points'!). How 'formal' this is (whether a 'V3M garage', or 'popping round to Foggy's place') is a matter for discussion.
* We can't impose on Pete on a regular basis. This is his place of work, and (for example) oil on the drive can't be tolerated. Naughty Nessy!
As for parts...a database of who makes what would probably suffice for now. If it turns out to be an administerative nightmare, we could look into it further at a later date.
cheers
James
Regarding access, I think a 'core' group of 5-10 people should 'run' this scheme, but with access for all. As for V3M membership - anyone who joins the forum is a 'member'. That's as formal as it gets at the moment. After a month of the forum being down, some of us chipped in a fiver to get us some better hosting, and that happened to be primarily the 'regulars', but there's no preferential treatment here - and certainly no assumption that you should donate. In fact right at the moment I'd suggest people don't - we don't have anything to spend the money on!
There are a great many factors to consider and discuss at length (most likely over a pint or 5), but this was an attempt to 'test the water'. Clearly we can't cater for all regions, but based on what a pleasure it was to use Pete's facillities yesterday* I think a storage/workshop facility ought to be set up somewhere in the M4/M5/M1 triangle (using the M42 to close the triangle...basically London, Bristol, and Nottingham as the 'points'!). How 'formal' this is (whether a 'V3M garage', or 'popping round to Foggy's place') is a matter for discussion.
* We can't impose on Pete on a regular basis. This is his place of work, and (for example) oil on the drive can't be tolerated. Naughty Nessy!
As for parts...a database of who makes what would probably suffice for now. If it turns out to be an administerative nightmare, we could look into it further at a later date.
cheers
James
VOC 300-series Register Keeper
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
Yeah.. having drained a gearbox and diff of oil and filled it back up with fresh stuff - Nessy managed to make more of a mess all by itself....foggyjames wrote: * We can't impose on Pete on a regular basis. This is his place of work, and (for example) oil on the drive can't be tolerated. Naughty Nessy!
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux
Very interesting point this one. I won't make this a long post because I'd just be repeating a lot of what was said already. I think that most people are fairly capable of doing most simple things if guided through it properly, and that's what this forum is more than capable of doing. We've probably got the widest knowledge of Volvo 300s in the English speaking world, and maybe even the rest of the world too. Its only the big things that require a bit of dismantling or first hand experience that this thing is for, although I suppose we could run a servicing facility too, if you don't have the facilities for the oil etc.
The facilities thing is a great plan, and as you guys say if you want your car to be fixed carefully and to the specifications it was designed to have then you would be happy to drive it or pay for it to be trailored to a fairly central place and keep it there until its all sorted out, knowing that not only will it be done better, it'd probably be done cheaper and also you might learn something yourself cos you'd most probably be helping out.
Threadjack: thanks so much to PeteFarrell, Foggyjames and SteveP for their help in my gearbox swap yesterday, it was great to have the help I needed and also to see other people manage to get as filthy as me working underneath a car
Back on topic, if enough people feel strongly about this, and give it support then its gonna be a realistic prospect, and a damn useful one, so keep the suggestions coming.
Even if you don't like the ideas, say why and what you might suggest instead, you never know, you might have the eureka idea!
Andy
The facilities thing is a great plan, and as you guys say if you want your car to be fixed carefully and to the specifications it was designed to have then you would be happy to drive it or pay for it to be trailored to a fairly central place and keep it there until its all sorted out, knowing that not only will it be done better, it'd probably be done cheaper and also you might learn something yourself cos you'd most probably be helping out.
Threadjack: thanks so much to PeteFarrell, Foggyjames and SteveP for their help in my gearbox swap yesterday, it was great to have the help I needed and also to see other people manage to get as filthy as me working underneath a car
Back on topic, if enough people feel strongly about this, and give it support then its gonna be a realistic prospect, and a damn useful one, so keep the suggestions coming.
Even if you don't like the ideas, say why and what you might suggest instead, you never know, you might have the eureka idea!
Andy
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foggyjames
- *** V3M DONOR ***
- Posts: 9361
- Joined: 29 Jan 2004 04:20 am
- Location: Nottingham, UK
Having had a bit more of a think about the 'garage', I think the best thing would be for private garages to be made available for 'open days' once a fortnight, or once a month, or whatever. Doing anything more 'communal' is probably a recipe for unnecessary complication.
Part of the reason for this is that I'm planning to buy a house shortly (most likely with Ryan...what will the neighbours think?!), and I'm looking at buying something with outbuildings, or the land (and likelyhood of being granted planning permission) to build something barn/workshop shaped...and I'm trying to work out how to fit this into 'the bigger picture', or if it might be better to look at buying a 'remote' site (rather like Pete's workshop...a mile or two down the road).
If we do go for a 'remote' site, that makes house-hunting a lot easier.
cheers
James
Part of the reason for this is that I'm planning to buy a house shortly (most likely with Ryan...what will the neighbours think?!), and I'm looking at buying something with outbuildings, or the land (and likelyhood of being granted planning permission) to build something barn/workshop shaped...and I'm trying to work out how to fit this into 'the bigger picture', or if it might be better to look at buying a 'remote' site (rather like Pete's workshop...a mile or two down the road).
If we do go for a 'remote' site, that makes house-hunting a lot easier.
cheers
James
VOC 300-series Register Keeper
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...
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petefarrell360
- *** V3M DONOR ***
- Posts: 3083
- Joined: 11 Oct 2004 07:12 pm
- Location: Bucks, UK
Personally, I think your last suggestion is a good one James, in as much as I know how expensive renting a building is. Not only is it the rent, it's the electric, the rates, heating in winter.......... the list goes on. Also, that would require a constant source of money in order to keep the facilities. Another point would be that it probably won't be used during the week, or constantly, due to most people's working lives etc during weekdays, so you'd be paying money for something you can't use to it's full potential or get your money's worth, apart from maybe limited secure dry storage, depending upon how much space you can get hold of/afford.
I don't mind having people over to use the workshop. My main aim when I moved into that unit was to keep the doorway clear of machines and general junk as best as I could, so I could always work on my car in there, in the dry, in the light (when there is power!) and in the warm in winter. In my previous unit it was rather a tight fit, but then became impossible as I acquired more machinery.
In the case of our mini meet over the weekend, you all came quite some way, James having the longest trip of all, but hopefully it has been worthwhile. Vart and Mac are close together, and so Mac has been offering his assistance, workshop, tools etc and together they are working on his car. Andy and myself have done a few jobs on different cars at my workshop now, namely the Variomatic, my GLT and his GLE as Andy isn't a million miles from me.
I think it's best that if people are willing to and have the space, a few different garages, workshops and places can be used, as in the summer, or fine weather, a driveway will suffice for most jobs if it's achievable in a day and deosn't require a secure home overnight while it's in bits! That way no one person can ever get lumbered with the costs of keeping a workshop, or the responsibility of being the closest to it, so always has to be there to help/unlock/assist etc. If for whatever reason any of the main organisers of the scheme don't want to be involved anymore, for instance moving on to a different vehicle........ the costs and responsibilty isn't spread across such a number of people and could rapidly rise and become unsustainable.
Although we all get along very well, enjoy ourselves and help each other out, committing to such things and involving money might induce unnecessary arguements/tension/upsets, so I think make do with whatever space is available between us.
On another note, MJ mentioned about location and distance to travel, and I think someone else mentioned how to get tools and special equipment to the right places when they are needed. The logistics of the operation are going to be a tad tricky sometimes, especially if the car to be fettled is not best used for a long journey to collect the required equipment until it is fixed. I can only agree with the previous suggestion of bringing the items to centralised meets if they happen to be well timed, or if someone happens to be passing where the item is, and might then go along to the fixing weekend, or be passing by someone who is! Couriers or the postal service aren't really an option for most large items, a because of the possibilty of damage, and then cost.
Sorry once again...........bad habit of long posts at silly o'clock forming.......
Pete
I don't mind having people over to use the workshop. My main aim when I moved into that unit was to keep the doorway clear of machines and general junk as best as I could, so I could always work on my car in there, in the dry, in the light (when there is power!) and in the warm in winter. In my previous unit it was rather a tight fit, but then became impossible as I acquired more machinery.
In the case of our mini meet over the weekend, you all came quite some way, James having the longest trip of all, but hopefully it has been worthwhile. Vart and Mac are close together, and so Mac has been offering his assistance, workshop, tools etc and together they are working on his car. Andy and myself have done a few jobs on different cars at my workshop now, namely the Variomatic, my GLT and his GLE as Andy isn't a million miles from me.
I think it's best that if people are willing to and have the space, a few different garages, workshops and places can be used, as in the summer, or fine weather, a driveway will suffice for most jobs if it's achievable in a day and deosn't require a secure home overnight while it's in bits! That way no one person can ever get lumbered with the costs of keeping a workshop, or the responsibility of being the closest to it, so always has to be there to help/unlock/assist etc. If for whatever reason any of the main organisers of the scheme don't want to be involved anymore, for instance moving on to a different vehicle........ the costs and responsibilty isn't spread across such a number of people and could rapidly rise and become unsustainable.
Spot on. Cost and complication are the problems. In an ideal world it'd be nice to have three or four dedicated V3M garages across the country, free to use for all, but I've not won the lottery yet........ so you'll all have to wait I'm afraid!foggyjames wrote:Doing anything more 'communal' is probably a recipe for unnecessary complication.
Although we all get along very well, enjoy ourselves and help each other out, committing to such things and involving money might induce unnecessary arguements/tension/upsets, so I think make do with whatever space is available between us. On another note, MJ mentioned about location and distance to travel, and I think someone else mentioned how to get tools and special equipment to the right places when they are needed. The logistics of the operation are going to be a tad tricky sometimes, especially if the car to be fettled is not best used for a long journey to collect the required equipment until it is fixed. I can only agree with the previous suggestion of bringing the items to centralised meets if they happen to be well timed, or if someone happens to be passing where the item is, and might then go along to the fixing weekend, or be passing by someone who is! Couriers or the postal service aren't really an option for most large items, a because of the possibilty of damage, and then cost.
Sorry once again...........bad habit of long posts at silly o'clock forming.......
Pete
G reg 360 GLT, G reg 340 GL Variomatic, plus many more..........
hi guys.
I think the ideas you have are sound and I've got some ideas to add to the brew also.
Im interested in getting more involved with this and have some info for you... im in a rush now as on lunch break but will post tonight or tomorrow.
Im off to change the J reg 340s clutch tonight.....
all the best
Shimon
I think the ideas you have are sound and I've got some ideas to add to the brew also.
Im interested in getting more involved with this and have some info for you... im in a rush now as on lunch break but will post tonight or tomorrow.
Im off to change the J reg 340s clutch tonight.....
all the best
Shimon
Enjoy your 300s
Just to put another ha'poth in.
I don't think we need a centralised w/shop, and I think isn't practical anyway.
What I do believe is the most important contribution that v3m can make is information. I and others have said this before - we represent and have more knowledge and experience of the 300 series than probably anyone else and that includes most current Volvo dealers (although they would never admit it)
A great deal of information is spread though many, many posts going back over time - and it is in danger of being lost through the difficulty in finding it.
How many times have we seen a newbie ask a question that has been answered many times.?
We really do need a posting system that can archive posts by specific areas of the car (as the 'green books' 2=engine 3=electrics 4=transmission etc. etc.) The longer we wait to introduce this then the harder it will be to 'recover' the wealth already posted.
I know Aymat is very busy - but if he hasn't the time to get such a system up and running is there someone else able to do so?? (honest Aymat this isn't meant as critisism).
When I first joined v3m one of my first 'jobs' was to scan all my accessory fitting instructions onto CD and send them to Aymat. One of my next tasks was to write an illustrated article about the CVT system - also sent to Aymat. He has said he will, and I am absolutely sure he has every intention to post them - but time has no doubt precluded this so far. This and much, much, more info is 'available' but not readily accessible - to, I am sure, the loss of those interested it it.
The way I see v3m progressing is,
1. A gradual move towards more of 'physical' rather than 'virtual' car club.
with over time the organisation of 'regional meetings' so that 'online friends' can become 'meet down the pub friends'
2. To become an archive of 300series information. the first stop in solving 300 owners problems. Not just having to answer the same question over.
3. Rather than have a v3m workshop act more in a advisory capacity - those with the skills, not doing the work, but teaching others.
We must get rid of the mystique of the motor trade. There is very little that a competent owner cannot do on his car (and most v3mers will be enthusiasts) given common sense (which we have - well maybe not Redline), the tools (beg, borrow, hire, steal), and knowledge ! - back to the idea of an archive again. I can even see 'talk you through a job' chats on the phone in the future. May be a posted list of 'pet' experts phone numbers ??
4. An 'organisation' to 'legitamise' efforts to source discontinued parts. Manufactures and suppliers will always take more notice of an actual club than a single individual.
5. Consider drawing closer to another car club - sorry but v3m will never become a really large club - there aren't enough 300s left !!. So linking more closely with another (small) club could be a survival strategy for both. The obvious choice would be Daf enthusiasts.
Still I've run on enough for now!
Mac.
I don't think we need a centralised w/shop, and I think isn't practical anyway.
What I do believe is the most important contribution that v3m can make is information. I and others have said this before - we represent and have more knowledge and experience of the 300 series than probably anyone else and that includes most current Volvo dealers (although they would never admit it)
A great deal of information is spread though many, many posts going back over time - and it is in danger of being lost through the difficulty in finding it.
How many times have we seen a newbie ask a question that has been answered many times.?
We really do need a posting system that can archive posts by specific areas of the car (as the 'green books' 2=engine 3=electrics 4=transmission etc. etc.) The longer we wait to introduce this then the harder it will be to 'recover' the wealth already posted.
I know Aymat is very busy - but if he hasn't the time to get such a system up and running is there someone else able to do so?? (honest Aymat this isn't meant as critisism).
When I first joined v3m one of my first 'jobs' was to scan all my accessory fitting instructions onto CD and send them to Aymat. One of my next tasks was to write an illustrated article about the CVT system - also sent to Aymat. He has said he will, and I am absolutely sure he has every intention to post them - but time has no doubt precluded this so far. This and much, much, more info is 'available' but not readily accessible - to, I am sure, the loss of those interested it it.
The way I see v3m progressing is,
1. A gradual move towards more of 'physical' rather than 'virtual' car club.
with over time the organisation of 'regional meetings' so that 'online friends' can become 'meet down the pub friends'
2. To become an archive of 300series information. the first stop in solving 300 owners problems. Not just having to answer the same question over.
3. Rather than have a v3m workshop act more in a advisory capacity - those with the skills, not doing the work, but teaching others.
We must get rid of the mystique of the motor trade. There is very little that a competent owner cannot do on his car (and most v3mers will be enthusiasts) given common sense (which we have - well maybe not Redline), the tools (beg, borrow, hire, steal), and knowledge ! - back to the idea of an archive again. I can even see 'talk you through a job' chats on the phone in the future. May be a posted list of 'pet' experts phone numbers ??
4. An 'organisation' to 'legitamise' efforts to source discontinued parts. Manufactures and suppliers will always take more notice of an actual club than a single individual.
5. Consider drawing closer to another car club - sorry but v3m will never become a really large club - there aren't enough 300s left !!. So linking more closely with another (small) club could be a survival strategy for both. The obvious choice would be Daf enthusiasts.
Still I've run on enough for now!
Mac.