Mercedes reliability questions.

Post by **dalahare** » 11 Mar 2008 06:22 pm

Now i know this is nothing to do with 300s, but i am considering getting an old merc, maybe a 1981 300sel, here in Aus they aren't very popular, as we have ford falcons and holden commodores as our large family sedans, however these don't appeal to me at all as they are very basic, you'll get central locking if you're lucky, but even finding one with just power windows is a stretch, where the merc is fully loaded with all sorts of good bits. I figure over there these cars would be pretty run of the mill and you guys might be able to point out any things i should be keeping an eye out for, do they rust in particular places, have electrical gremilins or any know reliability issues?

Post by **trabitom99** » 11 Mar 2008 10:00 pm

Well, since you're looking for another "300" you're not being entirely off-topic ... but that'd mean you'd need to look from 1985 onwards if you want a petrol Merc as that's when the 300 SEL came out

I have to say, 1980's Mercs are great cars. They're probably among the most reliable motors ever built, not suffering the rust problems of the 70's or the electrical and quality problems of the mid- to late 90's. That was an era when terms like "shareholder value" hadn't been heard of down in Dingolfing and the quality of the cars built was just astounding.

I may be a bit biased, I've owned a '75 280 W114 for the last 8 years. Fuel economy: ahem, not so good, but the sound of the M110 DOHC engine as the auto swaps down a cog when overtaking is a joy. The only time it's ever let me down was when it'd been standing for nearly a year and the master cylinder failed.

Not that it was any trouble finding a replacement mind: you can totally forget the parts problems we're all used to from Volvo. Last week I ordered various random bits of chrome trim, including the felt underlay and the plastic lugs to connect them to the bodywork along with new seals for the boot and the rear lights. All for a car which came out in 1968! "I'm afraid we don't have it in stock sir, will tomorrow suit you? Oh, you're member of a classic car club? In that case, we'll be happy rebate you 20% of the cost".

A Merc may not be everyone's cup of tea, but find a good one, and you've got a car for life ... How about a 280 SEL (with the same M110 I've got in mine) built from '80-'85? The next classic Merc in my view ...

Tom

Post by **redline** » 11 Mar 2008 11:36 pm

forget the merc and get a toyota camry ,
they are quite popular in Aus iirc and are pure luxury as they almost the same as a Lexus ,

Jap reliability , cheaper spares than the merc with a really high spec, what more could you want ?

Post by **petefarrell360** » 11 Mar 2008 11:39 pm

The W124's are practically bomb proof! The older Mercs are far better than the newer ones. I've got a 220TE with 240,000 miles on the clock, pulls well, the only tell tale sign of the miles is the wear on the drivers seat, other than that, it's pretty good.

Interesting what you say about parts Tom. I'd have hoped Volvo (Ford being the problem now) would have been proud of their history and continued to support the older cars. Ford's policy has alienated myself for sure, I'd NEVER buy a new Volvo or Ford, then again I'd never buy a new car to be honest, as the investment may not be good as a longterm buy if you intended to keep the car for as long as possible, as there would be no guarantee that it would have parts support for as long as you own it.

Pete

Post by **SteveP** » 11 Mar 2008 11:45 pm

Must say, Pete... I very much doubt Ford have any influence on the situation for parts for older Volvo's. Infact, they're very good at parts for their own older cars as far as I gather.

Post by **Ronnie** » 12 Mar 2008 12:07 am

I've always fancied a W123 - a beautiful motor. Allegedly very solid, not that I have personal experience of them.

Saw a rat one a wee while ago with a bumper sticker which read "My other car is The Black Pearl", which seemed to fit the car and its driver perfectly

Post by **dalahare** » 12 Mar 2008 04:06 am

Here is a few links of what i'm looking at. i'd really like a w126 as they are my preffered shape, and the post 1985/6 ones look slightly better with the different bumpers and wheels.

1981? 300sel

I was unsure about the age of this 300, as i too thought it was the post 1986ish that the 300s came out. (thanks wiki

)

1988 300sel
My favourite, but might end up being a bit exxy once roadworthy and rego is paid for.

What are the v8s like? there's a fair few of them around?

1986 420sel
this one looks carbied? i thought they were injected?

1984 380se

Looks like i might have to end up with a 280 though.

1984 280sel

1981 280se

Post by **dalahare** » 12 Mar 2008 04:14 am

redline wrote:forget the merc and get a toyota camry ,
they are quite popular in Aus iirc and are pure luxury as they almost the same as a Lexus ,

Jap reliability , cheaper spares than the merc with a really high spec, what more could you want ?

come to Australia and see what crappy levels of trim the cars came with in the 80's and 90s, you might find camry's in my price range with aircon and power steer, forget any other luxuries at all untill you get into cars made in the very late 90s, not to mention the fact they are front wheel drive.

Post by **dalahare** » 12 Mar 2008 04:19 am

trabitom99 wrote:I may be a bit biased, I've owned a '75 280 W114 for the last 8 years. Fuel economy: ahem, not so good, but the sound of the M110 DOHC engine as the auto swaps down a cog when overtaking is a joy. The only time it's ever let me down was when it'd been standing for nearly a year and the master cylinder failed.

roughly what sort of fuel economy (L/100ks) are we looking at? most the other large cars on my list will do 15-17l/100 around town and about 12 on the highway.

Post by MJ » 12 Mar 2008 04:28 am

I've no personal experience, but Mercs of that age are meant to be very reliable.

Reliability is supposed to be worse on newer models where the numbers are after the letters in the model name, e.g. CL600, not 300SD. Apparently the time when model naming was changed, was about the same time that the cars started to be built to cost, rather than pricing based on the cost of production to the best quality.

Post by **trabitom99** » 12 Mar 2008 09:45 am

petefarrell360 wrote:Interesting what you say about parts Tom. I'd have hoped Volvo (Ford being the problem now) would have been proud of their history and continued to support the older cars. Ford's policy has alienated myself for sure, I'd NEVER buy a new Volvo or Ford, then again I'd never buy a new car to be honest, as the investment may not be good as a longterm buy if you intended to keep the car for as long as possible, as there would be no guarantee that it would have parts support for as long as you own it.
Pete

I agree with you on that 100% Pete. It's actually quite fun looking for parts that are NOT available for a W114/115 or a W123 anymore. You're looking at things like "seat squab for tall persons (scandinavian markets)" or "rear door cards for long wheelbase versions (ambulance and hearse variants)".

SteveP wrote:Must say, Pete... I very much doubt Ford have any influence on the situation for parts for older Volvo's. Infact, they're very good at parts for their own older cars as far as I gather.

I'm afraid not from my experience, Steve... The parts you can get for old Fords tend to be from specialist companies, Ford themselves are very negligent on preserving their own history. And try finding bits of Ghia trim for a Mk1 Granada, good luck

dalahare wrote:roughly what sort of fuel economy (L/100ks) are we looking at? most the other large cars on my list will do 15-17l/100 around town and about 12 on the highway.

I average 13,5 L/100kms in mine, with a span ranging from around 12 - 16. Mind you, it's a carb (equivalent to a 280S in a <'85 W126), the injected versions are supposed to be a bit more frugal while returning a whole 25 bhp more (the 280 SE(L) in a <'85 W126). But take into account the S-classes are a good deal heavier ...

If you prefer the look of a facelifted W126 (I have to say, I prefer the old ones) you might as well go for one of the '85-'91 models as they're better on fuel and even better on rust.

Funnily enough, there was some point in the early 90's when Mercedes changed to water-based paint, making the very latest versions of those cars which had a good reputation for rust in the '80s (W201, W124) actually slightly worse

dalahare wrote:What are the v8s like? there's a fair few of them around?
1986 420sel
this one looks carbied? i thought they were injected?

The V8s are even more long lived than the 6-cylinder versions, 400.000 - 500.000kms are the norm. But they're heavier on fuel and don't quite have the "V8 noise" you might expect if you're like films like "Bullitt"

The "E" in the name says it's injection. Only the early 280S with the carbed M110 were carb, all the other cars were injection.

Tom

Post by **Chris_C** » 12 Mar 2008 10:47 am

trabitom99 wrote:
SteveP wrote:Must say, Pete... I very much doubt Ford have any influence on the situation for parts for older Volvo's. Infact, they're very good at parts for their own older cars as far as I gather.
I'm afraid not from my experience, Steve... The parts you can get for old Fords tend to be from specialist companies, Ford themselves are very negligent on preserving their own history. And try finding bits of Ghia trim for a Mk1 Granada, good luck

Over here there is a big warehouse of 60's stuff, huge quantities of old escort bits etc. Added to the 3rd party support too, they have a very easy (if expensive) life with old fords.

Post by **trabitom99** » 12 Mar 2008 01:01 pm

Over here, manufacturer support for old Fords is pretty dismal, certainly much worse than Volvo. No Ford-supported parts supply, no museum, no help for the clubs ... Euro Ford fans pretty much depend on third party support.

Maybe the difference between Germany and the UK is because Ford D and Ford GB were run as different companies, both in terms of development and in sales, until way into the seventies? Not sure there ...

Tom

Post by **trabitom99** » 12 Mar 2008 02:11 pm

dalahare wrote:Here is a few links of what i'm looking at.

1981? 300sel

I was unsure about the age of this 300, as i too thought it was the post 1986ish that the 300s came out. (thanks wiki )

They may have meant '91 rather than '81. The wheel trims and engine size certainly suggest a post '85 model.

dalahare wrote: 1988 300sel
My favourite, but might end up being a bit exxy once roadworthy and rego is paid for.

What are the v8s like? there's a fair few of them around?

1986 420sel
this one looks carbied? i thought they were injected?

1984 380se

Looks like i might have to end up with a 280 though.

1984 280sel

1981 280se

My favourite from that list is the 380 SE

Generally, I'd avoid cars with tow bars (had a hard life and you can always fit one yourself if you need one) and cars with after-fit chrome wheelarches (are they hiding rust?). Other than that, the usual used car advice I suppose, the fewer owners the better and a full service history is well worth paying a bit more for.

Other than that, I'm sure there're loads of "buyers' guides" in the Internet on the W126, there certainly are in German ...

Tom

PS BTW, I have to do my Volvo 300-owner bit here: what's wrong with another 360? An SEL would be a nightmare to park in my road

And they don't have funny stars on the bonnet which get broken off every Saturday night ...

T.

Post by **classicswede** » 14 Mar 2008 05:09 pm

The old mercs are a common LPG even now. Most have the K jet so have soem specific requirments with the conversion but all the bits are still readily available.

The mercs are a nice old car IMO and are well enogh built to cope with high milage. The K jet system is quite simple and normaly faifly troble free.