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mac
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Post by mac » 29 Mar 2008 12:18 pm

Mornin' all,

Thank you Andy and Pete for your comments about my worth - grossly overstated I am sure, but welcome nevertheless!. This is of course not about me (or any one member of the VOC) but about a club I fear has lost touch with the present century - how else could it have cut off at a stroke the main source of communication for a large percentage of its members (and destroyed the main source through which new (certainly younger) members came to the VOC. The loss of potential members must be huge!

In Bobs statement it was said that the directors feared that the VOC was becoming "tarnished" - my contention is that the way in which the forum has been shut damages the VOC far, far more than the postings of a few hotheads who should know better.

My own feelings are that sanity will prevail and the VOC forum will be back (when the implications of closure sink in) and I truly, truly hope that such is the case. I however have acted as my concience dictates and feel that whatever the future I can never again support a club that has displayed the cavalier attitude shown by the unannounced way the VOC forum was closed.

I have written to the directors (via CHris Wickers) explaining my reasons and returning my membership card. I wish the VOC no malice, and all success for the future but I can no longer be part of it. This decision has been taken "for me" and in my heart "feels the right thing to do"

In case other VOC members present here are interested in my resoning I reproduce the text of my letter to the VOC below.

27-03-2008


Hi Chris,
Further to my e-mail of today. I really am most sorry to have to resign my membership over the complete closure of the forum but I believe a situation has arisen that I not only cannot agree with but that also demonstrates that the VOC is beginning to loose touch with what many of the members want - particularly the "younger set" which like it or not represent the future of the club.

On the face of things the closure of the forum is quite simple - a post was placed criticising a trader who reacted with threats (almost certainly a bluff). The forum moderators (as they had to do) reacted with a cautious approach and deleted the thread. A number of people who should have known better reacted (in my opinion childishly) and Bob and the VOC became the subject of undeserved comments. The VOC have responded by closing the forum.

However to my mind the unannounced closure with no warning is a complete overreaction which penalizes the large number of VOC members who have used the forum as their primary avenue of communication. At a stroke the closure has cut off these members who I believe will view (wrongly I think) that the VOC reaction is a petulant lashing out at criticism (I don't agree but I believe the closure will be viewed as such, especially by younger members who are more likely to use the Internet as their main "keeping in touch tool".)

I believe many new, younger, members have come to the VOC through the forum and will now be alienated. Their loss together with the loss of potential new members will I believe do the VOC no good at all. In fact I feel it will reinforce the view held in some quarters that the VOC is a "gentlemen's club" for bearded old
farts. In his statement Bob felt that the name of the club was "being tarnished" but I and many others with whom I have spoken feel that the way in which the forum has been shut harms the reputation of the VOC far more that a few "hot heads" ever could.

There must have been many ways to moderate the forum to exclude the possibility of legal action and yet still preserve the valuable role it played in members interest - some of whom have been left "mid message" in sales, wants, or technical advice. I myself in an earlier post, and in our recent phone conversation suggested a number of possibilities to "protect" the forum and I am sure others made similar suggestions. The speed with which the closure has taken place illustrates that few alternatives were considered.

As previously stated consideration could have been given to:

A clearly stated posting policy, to include no unsubstantiated comments.
Make agreement of the policy a condition of registering to post.
Have an agreed procedure for any criticised person or company to respond.
Investigate the possibility of the VOC acting as neutral mediators.
Seek indemnity insurance funded by a subscription paid for registration.

The VOC seems however seems to have taken the easy option and "given in" to the bullies (who I suspect have an agenda of their own in any event).

It may be that the forum reopens in the future but the ease with which the VOC seems to have disadvantaged so many members proves that it is not the club I thought it was (or perhaps it is just out of touch?). I feel very strongly about what has happened here and the only way in which my principles allow me to react is to resign my membership. (perhaps you would be good enough to pass a copy of this letter and my enclosed membership card on to John Smith. I regret I must also ask you to withdraw my name from register the keepers (the technical advice issue we discussed during our last meeting)).

It is indeed sad to part from the VOC under such circumstances but my conscience dictates how I must act. I do however wish you all the best for the future.

Yours sincerely,



All the best to everyone here - Mac.


(see Pete - my post is nearly as big as yours)!!

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Post by sven360 » 29 Mar 2008 01:36 pm

Shame it had to come to that :cry:

Not a forum I frequent, non the less any resources lost for any make of any older or even modern vehicles is a problem.

Personally, a thread deletion should be enough but in these days of litigation it appears not.Looks like a kneejerk reaction but what would I know??

Nice to see you posting back on here Mac all the same.
You undersell yourself-I've built a shrine to you next to the rally car :wink:
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Post by classicswede » 29 Mar 2008 02:03 pm

My old man who contributes a lot to the VOC is verry peeved about the way this has happend. The most annoying thing is the fact at the moment a lot of the info he has posted on the foum is currecntly unavailable to veiw.

IMO the forum should have been locked rather than closed so at least it could be veiwed ( with offending posts removed)

We are upset with the VOC as a club (this is not the first time there have been issues with the forum)

My old man has also written to the VOC to complain about what has gone on. The main reason for the complaint is lack of comunication on the resons why thinks have happened.

I do hope the forum does come back on line (as the current message suggests) but I do wounder if there is to much damage already done?
Dai

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mac
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Post by mac » 29 Mar 2008 02:24 pm

Hi there Dai,

I'm certainly glad I'm not the only one peed off ! As I said I really do hope the forum comes back up again but the damage has been done by the way in which the totally unannounced closure took place. Whatever is done now may influence future membership - but for myself (and I suspect) others these events have caused a "parting of the ways" and that I will not go back on.

I just hope the directors of the VOC realise the implications of what has happened and think of the vast majority of their members before acting in haste again.

Mac.

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Post by simo » 29 Mar 2008 06:31 pm

This is shocking news to me Mac!

i was a more frequent user on the VOC forum before, where i was invited to join V3M quite recently by fellow V3M/VOC member, i would be lost if i this hadn't happened.

The whole point of the a Volvo Owners Community Forums is surely and exactly what the name implies - a community of volvo owners! where owners can simply exchange knowledge.

Knowing that there is the odd few that can deliberately ruin it for all of us through "no brainer" comments is absurd. Having to tread carefully in your own environment is ridiculously unfair to genuine users, especially the ones who have spent time and effort on developing the site. It really is sad that it came to this. What sort of a community will this create now?

This brings me back to the thought of where even in your own home a burglar can sue you for damages if they happened to have injured themselves whilst burgling your house!!! Justice is all wrong!

I do hope that this isn't the end of VOC, like i said it would be grossly unfair. I hope V3M never ever attracts unsavoury characters like this and remain a happy, friendly place to be.

Good on you for making a point! I hear you!

Simon
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Post by MJ » 29 Mar 2008 06:40 pm

Time for Duvel to open www.volvomania.com for all makes of Volvo? ;) (edit: ah, that site already exists as the #1 Volvo site in Thailand...:P)

I would imagine that considering how big a community it is/was, someone else will open a replacement for everyone to migrate to (if the VOC doesn't re-open).

I was a member of another forum (non Volvo related) that closed suddenly like this (but for different reasons) and luckily someone did just that. Soon probably 80% or so of members migrated. It was very useful, as otherwise the community would have just disappeared.
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Post by classicswede » 29 Mar 2008 06:56 pm

MJ there is something already on the way. Should not be long for it to get up and running :idea:
Dai

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mac
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Post by mac » 30 Mar 2008 03:20 pm

Well the VOC forum is back up again and according to Bobs "reopening message" only a very small number of messages were received objecting to the way in which the forum was closed ! Apparently the board have received a very high number of messages (from VOC and forum members alike) giving support to the way the forum was closed. (quite how these messages found their way through on a closed forum indicates a technology I am not aware of) I have spoken to quite a number of VOC members by phone and have yet to find a single person who has expressed such support - but what do I know?

Just goes to show how completely out of touch I must have been to have even thought of being upset at the way the forum shut without warning and with no message of explanation on the VOC website. I realise now how lucky I have been in the past for having been allowed to be a member of such a gracious and "in touch" organisation. I does of course make me all the sadder to have so ungratefully made my objection by resigning my membership of the VOC - I am indeed a worm!

Managed to get my tongue out of my cheek.

Mac.

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Post by jtbo » 30 Mar 2008 03:25 pm

Sounds like any political case, it was just a weather balloon, nothing to see here - type of thing.

What should I know, I have lurked few times there I think, but not much, have been lurking more at turbo bricks actually :P
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Post by Chris_C » 08 Apr 2008 12:54 am

Working well now it's back up I see :(

I find this... hmm, struggling for the right word here, upsetting/dissappointing? Possibly. It's the car club I've belonged to since I learned to drive, and has helped me on several occasions, especially before I joined here. The new rules are neither here or there for me, but the place feels hostile already.

Whats even more annoying is I havn't made it to a local meet for a while because of rally events, and as much as I'd spent years taking the mick, the 'speedy beardies' section I go to was not only helpful and informative, but completely unlike any of the stereotypes. 'Beardies' (I use the term very loosely here, normally I was the most bearded person there) who owned pv's with DCOE's, and full disc brake conversions. Who do their own work and use amazons as dailys. Not what was imagined as a complete polishing brigade who are scared of gettting their cars wet.

Still, I guess the two are very much not linked, only one person from my local section is on the VOC forums, but it is through that gent that I started going. Something tells me I'll be frequenting the forum less, although I'll give it a few weeks. I'm also keen to turn up to the EGM that has been called, if only to try and stop the loonies from taking over. Have enough of that at work, let alone in something that is supposed to be a c*cking hobby.

Rant over. Humph. Maybe they all need to buy a 300 and get some of that calming aroma that shipped across from Holland with it, it's not like half the things on a 300 could have been designed unless they were smoking something ;)
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'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

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Post by foggyjames » 08 Apr 2008 02:09 am

Agreed Chris. It is utterly pathetic. Too many VOC posters have too much time and nervous energy on their hands. They need to pick up a set of spanners, and get stuck in...then they'd have less time for having arguments about who knows less about their cars...and they'd look less stupid when they do post.

I feel very sorry for Bob. He puts in a huge amount of time, and he must be feeling that it's an utterly thankless job. As many people as possible should turn up to the EGM for the very reason you mention Chris. In my eyes, there is a very real danger that the loony brigade will amass the troops (as they have done online) and attempt to misrepresent the situation.

cheers

James
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Post by Chris_C » 08 Apr 2008 10:28 am

As all my VOC post goes to the Island, I'd appriciate it if when you get any posty type info you could let me know mate, so I don't miss anything.
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

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Post by V6 Man » 08 Apr 2008 05:59 pm

Agreed. There seems to be a little batch of troublemakers that are already causing hassle and inciting further riots. If I had my way 'John Terry' would be IP banned immediately.
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Post by petefarrell360 » 08 Apr 2008 09:29 pm

I'm not currently a VOC member, I was once, but I let it lapse. I should rejoin, and I think this may just be the kick up the backside I need to do it. The only way in which the VOC has been accessible and up to date for me is through the forum, instant online advice, the masses of information etc. If this community is lost, it means I will have no interest at all in the VOC, it would have nothing to offer that would be up to date or useful, and is closing a link it has with many members, especially the younger generation.

I assume you can join on the day if you're elligible at an EGM if need be in order to attend and take part?

Pete
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Post by pug_92 » 09 Apr 2008 12:29 am

sorry folks but cant be arsed reading all this, what is the VOC forum? anyone got a link?

cheers

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