very ill 340

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markpin
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very ill 340

Post by markpin » 17 Nov 2013 12:08 am

Hi

I have just joined the forum because my daughter has a problem with her car and hopefully someone here might have some parts available.

Basically the car was slowing down after a short duel carriage way drive thisafternoon and as she was coming to rest, the bell housing and the front of the gearbox both snapped! I can't really understand how this would happen, maybe someone on the forum has heard of a similar problem before. I guess it could have been some form of stress build up due to the torque tube set up?

Anyway, the car now needs a bell housing and either a gearbox or possibly the front cast section of it. I haven't really had the chance to look properly at the damage but its all a little bit broken!

Any one with any bits ?
Mark

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thododd
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Re: very ill 340

Post by thododd » 17 Nov 2013 10:58 am

That is a strange problem. Any pics of the failure in the casting? How much bolts were left in it, had any shaken themselves loose? Id quite like to see pics of this mess, might be able to determine what happened

You might need to be a bit more specific with the model details in order to get the right parts off here. Its a 340? With a 1400 b14 engine? And a 4/5spd manual or variomatic? What year? If its a 340 it has a 'regular' prop shaft rather than torque tube.

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Re: very ill 340

Post by MCHUDD » 17 Nov 2013 11:44 am

Hi Mark and welcome.
I have to agree with thododd about the car.
Is it not just the prop shaft that gone?
Seems a bit strange that the bell houseing
and gear box have both gone tits up.
Cheers Mark.
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mac
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Re: very ill 340

Post by mac » 17 Nov 2013 04:55 pm

Hi there Mark,

I'm sorry that such circumstances have led you to us!

Firstly, to advise, we need to know the model and engine variant - you speak of a torque tube so I presume it's a 360? Series.
I shall proceed on that assumption.
The engine and transmission is combined as one unit - Engine, clutch housing, torque tube, gearbox/diff. The engine is supported by two mountings - as is the gearbox/diff at the rear of the car. If one or more of these mountings fail or even break stress will be thrown on the assy. - if any thing breaks it is likely to be the weak points ie:- bell housing or g/box nose casting where the torque bolts on.

I've certainly heard of failures with bell housings on B14 and B172 engined cars (usually caused by sagging engine mounts which misaligns the propshaft (can't happen with 360)) but not on B19/B200 variants. Nor have I heard of gearbox nose failure.

Do get back to us will more info.

Good luck - Mac.

To sum up - the only cause I can suggest is drivetrain mounting failure - or just possibly it's a vibration induced failure (partial breakage of the drive quill splined link, or engine crankshaft damper failure perhaps). Certainly bell housings and gearbox nose castings can be replaced but it would be essential to diagnose the root cause of the breakages first.
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Re: very ill 340

Post by classicswede » 17 Nov 2013 07:14 pm

Knowing the exact variant will help a lot with working out what you need and some photos would do no harm.

The most likely cause will be failed engine/gearbox mounts. The other possible is a seized up bearing but I've never seen a bearing go.
Dai

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markpin
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Re: very ill 340

Post by markpin » 17 Nov 2013 09:01 pm

Hi
Thanks for all your feed back. I agree that I should have been a little less vague in my first post.

The car is a 1400, 1990. It was an auto when I first bought it but I converted to manual 6 years ago and its driven with no problems or strange vibrations for well over 20,000 miles. The gearbox I used was from a 1700 version which gave me the 5 speeds.

I had a closer look today in the daylight and the damage is very dramatic. The rear of the clutch prop has disconnected itself in the 'explosion'. The front of the gearbox casting has completely sheared so the only thing stopping it from falling is the exhaust and the gear change selector rod.
Meanwhile, at the other end the bell housing has sheared completely all around just behind the mountings. The clutch prop is still connected at that end.

Its almost as if the engine has been pulled forward while the gearbox was being pulled backwards just like a cracker. Trouble is there were no prizes in this cracker.

She did get some new tyres fitted recently by some garage who torqued up the wheel nuts to around 100 nm. Maybe they were so stupid that the also jacked the car up on the gearbox diff! That could have caused it to crack possibly?

I will take some pictures at some point.

Meanwhile, the bits I am after are a standard B14 bell housing for manual and at least the front casting for a 5 speed gearbox. Obviously it might be best to change the whole transaxle, its all down to what bits I can find I guess. Happy to go back to 4 speed if we have too.

Mark

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mac
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Re: very ill 340

Post by mac » 17 Nov 2013 09:53 pm

Hi again,

I think things are becoming a little clearer!
Having carried out a CVT to manual conversion you are obviously well aware as to how the various units are supported. Of these the gearbox/diff is far less likely to move being supported on four widely spaced mounts.
If your engine mounts are somewhat "soggy" they will permit a surprising degree of fore and aft movement of the engine/clutch assembly, and will also allow quite a degree of "dip" at the front of the engine.

I now suspect that, for whatever reason, the propshaft rear clamp may not have been fully torqued and/or the prop splines were not fully engaged on the gearbox input shaft. Under braking the engine moved forward sufficiently to allow the rear of the prop to disengage from the gearbox. As the propshaft turns at engine speed (unless the clutch is disengaged) the prop, now secured only to the clutch shaft would "flail" - easily loading the bell housing structure enough to cause it to fracture. The free end of the prop (thrashing about at the rear) could cause the damage to the gearbox nose casing.
Check your propshaft carefully - I think you may well find witness marks and damage on the rear end. I also suggest you look closely at the engine mount.
If the scenario is as I suspect you will need new engine mounts (all four) in addition to a bell housing/clutch shaft assembly, a propshaft, and a gearbox nose casing (the same part fits both 4speed and 5speed boxes from 1.4 and 1.7 engined cars). You should also check that the gearbox input shaft is undamaged, and that it has not been "levered" sufficiently to chip either the input shaft gear or layshaft forward gear.

Mac.
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markpin
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Re: very ill 340

Post by markpin » 17 Nov 2013 10:03 pm

Hi

That all makes total sense. I must be honest, its a long time since I double checked the tightness of the pinch bolts on the clutch tube and the car has been covering a lot of miles over the last few months since my daughter passed her test. I think that there has been a little too much engine and transmission wallo of late but I suppose I just thought it was the normally 340 vagueness.

I will source some engine mounts at the same time as the other bits, assuming they are still available. Are the heater hoses still available somewhere, I was told by volvo some years ago that they weren't anymore.

Mark

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mac
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Re: very ill 340

Post by mac » 17 Nov 2013 10:18 pm

Neither heater hoses nor engine mounts are available from Volvo - but are remanufactured to OE spec by an enthusiast in Belgium - "volvomania" on this forum.
When you know what you're going to need post up a list and we can point you in the direction of parts that are still available/remade and we can also keep a look out for what else is needed.

Mac.
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Re: very ill 340

Post by classicswede » 17 Nov 2013 10:57 pm

As a 1990 it will need the later type of front engine mounts, the rear ones are all the same.

I've not seen a car smash both ends before.

Has the gearbox dropped by any chance? I've seen some where the support crossmembers have rusted right through and maybe lifting off was enough to make it finally give?
Dai

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markpin
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Re: very ill 340

Post by markpin » 17 Nov 2013 11:44 pm

I haven't really checked the gearbox mounts properly so I will check for rust or breakage. The car had only done 41000 when I converted it and it is very solid underneath having been a low ownership car before.

I think a set of hoses and engine mounts new for it would be a nice little treat for it. Once its all back together it should last a few more years

Mark

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