343 - B14.2E > B200'RS'

B14, B172, B19/200, D16 engine, ignition, cooling, fuel & exhaust system, gearbox, variomatic, final drive... | Tuning: engine swaps, welded diff, clutch upgrades...
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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 04 Jun 2008 01:28 pm

hi

Im going to have a better look at this later but this appears to be an online searchable intermotor catalouge. Useful as a lot of intermotor stuff comes up on ebay.

I've liked to the temp sender section. Ive only had a quick look but it lists here the 343 2.0 sender so you might be in luck James!

gonna see if I can find a 343 1.4 1E sender too

:)
Enjoy your 300s

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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 04 Jun 2008 01:32 pm

oops

in a rush

should have said I've linked to the temp sender page

http://partfinder.smpeurope.com/index.h ... 9&value=31
Enjoy your 300s

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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 04 Jun 2008 04:03 pm

hi

just spoken to that company. They are a manufacturer and supplier of Intermotor parts and are based in Nottingham. Ignition components etc for 300s etc are also available from them (breakers, condensors etc). Useful generally for V3M members and VOC I think! An italian company called Facet make ignition components for Renix cars ie coils, crank sensors. Parts for 400 series too and other volvos probably.

This company cant supply the two pin sender units but does have one pin versions for later 340s and 360s.

At this stage, a chap there suggested the two pin was a Bosch design. If we give them the manu and model of the 1E sender, they can have a look in their catalog for equivalent part by them or other manufacturers.

:)
Enjoy your 300s

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foggyjames
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Post by foggyjames » 05 Jun 2008 01:01 am

Hi Shimon,

I got your message earlier, but was well and truly buried under the car at the time!

Yes, I'm quite happy to post you the sender, and I'm sure we can do a deal on the whole engine. PM me your address, and I'll get it on its way. Perhaps you could call in on the way back? It's not an impossibly huge detour to then go north on the A1 to the M62. It's a good point that it's probably not a B14.4E...but an earlier version. I guess it says on the engine plate. Oops...

To be honest, I am expecting to be able to mate the VDO sender to the Smiths cluster with no problems...but I will do a spot of metering to check!

cheers

James
VOC 300-series Register Keeper
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...

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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 05 Jun 2008 11:00 am

pm sent!
Enjoy your 300s

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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 05 Jun 2008 01:03 pm

hi

I havent had a chance to compare the wiring diagram yet but the 343 sender has a resistance of 35 to 45 ohms at "operating temperature" which I guess would be 90 degrees?
Enjoy your 300s

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foggyjames
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Post by foggyjames » 07 Jun 2008 06:49 pm

Resistance from sender body to the two terminals is ~700 Ohm and 1.6 MOhm. My meter (2 MOhm max) can't measure resistance between the two terminals. VDO temperature sensors tend to be '180 Ohm' units...but this is Smiths.

Then again, my gauge worked :s

cheers

James
VOC 300-series Register Keeper
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...

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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 08 Jun 2008 02:02 am

hello

ah.. those values dont make sense but hey, if the gauge worked then cool!!!

Ive had a look at the 343 wiring diagram and one for the post 86 cars.

The difference between the two and why the older cars have two wires is as follows. (I believe and am happy to be corrected!)

On the earlier cars, one lead from the sensor provides the variable resistance to the gauge unit which thus determines the position of the needle on the gauge. When the coolant temp is high enough to need to turn on the coolant warning lamp, on the early cars (two wires) the switch for this lamp is inside the sensor. The switch closes and the second wire provides the ground line for this circuit, thus illuminating the lamp. On the later cars (I guess VDO therefore) the warning lamp is tripped on by the gauge itself only...prob a simple position cause? I dont have a VDO gauge out of cluster to hand at the moment.

Therefore if the Smith two wire sensor has a resistance of 35 to 45 ohms at "operating temp". If the VDO sensor has a resistance of 180 ohms, the gauge will run "hot" with the smiths sender. The warming lamp wont work but really you dont need that as if the needle is heading skyward you wanna stop before the light!! As a respectable car enthusiast, you aint gonna push the temp so high anyway

so, you only need the sensor wire which on the 343 is....Gn = green. the lamp line is yellow. Given the age of the car (and if they are like the 66 I did) they are all yellow by now!!

Im not an electrical engineer but Chris C is so maybe something can be fitted between the sensor and the VDO gauge to get the resistance right.

Im happy to do a resistance Vs temp graph with the Smiths sender for you and then if you do the same with the VDO one, we can see the difference in values and the conversion needed. I presume the senders give a linear output....

thanks for the sender. I hope this helps......

and of course... good luck with the replica build! :)
Enjoy your 300s

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shimon340
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Post by shimon340 » 08 Jun 2008 02:06 am

correction: I had it in my head you were using a Smiths sender with a VDO gauge. Its the other way round. A VDO sender with a Smiths gauge will show COLD at operating temp not HOT as I said before.

Smiths is 35-45 ohms at 90 deg, VDO (based on your info) is 180 ohms.

180s ohm signal through a Smiths gauge would be cold....35-45 would be middle...

:)
Enjoy your 300s

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foggyjames
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Post by foggyjames » 09 Jun 2008 01:29 am

For now, I expect I simply won't connect it up. In the longer term, I think I'll look for a sender with the correct thread and the correct resistance range.

Latest pictar:
Image

It's in! Sort of...that was a mock-up to allow me to accurately mark out the positions for the nutserts (which go in tomorrow, all being well!).

The engine is currently back out, but tonight the PAS rack went in. There was a nervous moment when the lower side of the UJ inside the car wasn't the same...but lucking the upper side was the same, so I simply swapped the upper UJ, too.

It's going to be close for the BKV...!

cheers

James
VOC 300-series Register Keeper
'89 740 Turbo Intercooler
'88 360 Turbo Intercooler
'85 360 GLT
'81 343 GLS R-Sport
'79 343 DL
'70 164
...and some modern FWD nonsense to get me to work...

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Chris_C
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Post by Chris_C » 09 Jun 2008 10:02 am

foggyjames wrote:For now, I expect I simply won't connect it up. In the longer term, I think I'll look for a sender with the correct thread and the correct resistance range.
Certainly the easiest and cheapest solution Foggy, a box is possible, but certanily isn't easy or cheap....
foggyjames wrote: The engine is currently back out, but tonight the PAS rack went in. There was a nervous moment when the lower side of the UJ inside the car wasn't the same...but lucking the upper side was the same, so I simply swapped the upper UJ, too.
Yup, you are indeed correct, I didn't realise this until Andy took over the pulling out of PAS I was getting, and started pulling out the column too ;)

Seriously though, why do you want pas on the 343? You are going to be competing with it right?
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast

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SteveP
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Post by SteveP » 09 Jun 2008 10:05 am

Chris_C wrote:Seriously though, why do you want pas on the 343? You are going to be competing with it right?
Oh noes, here comes the PAS haterz... PAS on a 360 is lovely, I would always prefer one with it than without. Quicker rack too ;)
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux

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petefarrell360
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Post by petefarrell360 » 09 Jun 2008 01:34 pm

SteveP wrote:
Chris_C wrote:Seriously though, why do you want pas on the 343? You are going to be competing with it right?
Oh noes, here comes the PAS haterz... PAS on a 360 is lovely, I would always prefer one with it than without. Quicker rack too ;)
+1 for Mr P's comments! Had the conversation briefly with Foggy yesterday, each to their own, it's what you like and what you're used to. Compared to most PAS systems, the 360 is so much better, more feel than most, and the benefits too, without losing the feedback. I'd go PAS everytime if I could, as for low speed fun you've got quick direction change with one hand if needed.

Pete
G reg 360 GLT, G reg 340 GL Variomatic, plus many more..........

germ
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Post by germ » 09 Jun 2008 02:24 pm

love the neon light effect in the engine bay 8)
its gunna be a beast! .....lucky pastards.... :lol:

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trabitom99
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Post by trabitom99 » 09 Jun 2008 10:03 pm

The very best of luck with that project, James. Hope you get it finished in time for the BKV ... and look forward to seeing it one day!

Tom
343 GL Touring B14.1E CVT (155) 98000kms 1980 (sold)
343 L Junior B14.3E MT4 (155) 229000kms 1981 (scrapped)
343 DLS B19A MT4 (155) 167900kms 1982
360 GL Injection B200F MT5 (231) 348598kms 1988 (scrapped)
360 GLT B200F MT5 (302) 230000kms 1988

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