Rust. And how to kick its balls in. Help please.

[volvosneverdie]

Hello all,
an english winter has had its way with my defenceless 340 and Im starting to see brown blooms springing up where previously there were none. Front arch leading edges, rear jacking points/arch fronts, front vallance back/edges/front.
This simply will not do.
No sir.

I want to get a pre-emptive strike in against the poop-coloured cack-rot and as usual, have no Idea where to begin............

Im guessing rub down the standing rust and spray everywhere with Waxoyl?
Anything in perticular to source for the rubbing/removal of dead poop-rot?
Anything I shouldnt spray waxoyl on?

Any advice greatly welcomed.
A retards 'how too' guide will be rewarded with adulation and public bigging up of yourself.

Brown bad.
Lets kill it.

[whiskeyonesix]

I've not had much trouble with Volvo's in the past regarding rust, but how I treated it on my various old Fords and landrovers was pretty much the same.
Sand down affected area, treat with rust-eater or similar, find a little more rust, sand down area again, find a bit more rust. Remove entire panel and throw over convenient hedge. Go to scrapyard, buy replacement panel with only a little less rust that was on the previous panel. Start entire process all over again. Get annoyed, get angry, accidentally angle grind through drivers side wheel arch*, channel monumental fury onto next doors cat who happened to be in the right place at EXACTLY the right time. Bodge up and rattlecan wheel arch, bodge up and rattlecan panel. Place ad in Autotrader stating "suitable for enthusiast" Go to the pub.



*dunno how I managed that, it was the bonnet I was trying to repair.......

[nomead]

You're probably going to get very many different pieces of advice, possibly even contradicting.

What hasn't worked for me:

Lead based anti rust paint (red stuff, forbidden to sell nowadays) - started bubbling away after one winter with fresh rust underneath. Though the surface was just cleaned with a wire brush and rust eater.

Cheap zinc spray + cheap (acetone) primer + cheap (acetone) paint. Only took a couple months to start peeling.

Hammerite on a wire brush cleaned surface. Nope, rust came right through that as well.

What will probably work is if you do proper cleaning on the surface first, i.e. sandblasting and then immediately apply a two component epoxy primer that seals the surface from moisture. But I haven't had the chance to get that treatment on any of my experiments yet.

The jury is still out on SEM self etching primer, it hasn't peeled or bubbled yet (knocks wood) but it's probably still too early to tell.

Next "magic stuff" I'm going to try is Zinga. Bloody expensive stuff but people say it's supposed to work as well as (or even better than) hot galvanized zinc. But there are a couple problems. The organic binder is sensitive to solvents so it needs a special (also expensive) topcoat if you're going to paint it. And this stuff doesn't like lazy cleaning either.

As a summary, it seems that surface preparation is the key to success, because if you leave even a small pinpoint patch of rust, it'll start spreading from that if the topcoat isn't perfect. And it rarely is, with the methods available at home.

[volvosneverdie]

Hmmmmm.
Cheers gentlemen.
Sounds like a world of pain.

Off to ebay to look for a nice fibreglass robin reliant.
Stupid metal.

[2 Fast 4 U]

If it's to badly rusted, than all of the above will not help, you need a drastic approche, like in cutting out the bad spot and welding in a new piece, Iknow it's a lot of work, but it's the only way to keep the red-brown metal worm away

[volvosneverdie]

If it's to badly rusted, than all of the above will not help, you need a drastic approche, like in cutting out the bad spot and welding in a new piece, Iknow it's a lot of work, but it's the only way to keep the red-brown metal worm away

thats my point.
It only just begining.
So im looking to catch it early and PREVENT more, more than anything else.

Catch the cancer quick.

[jtbo]

Moisture is your enemy, so better find someone's boat and nick neat clock that has barometer and humidity meter (can be found from saunas too, but I guess you lack of those), if really long way to nearest boat harbour, you can try local cheap junk shop, met office web page can be used too if you trust them, now you need to observe how much there is humidity, it should not be maxed out, if it is wait for another day, less is better so usually indoors win.

Small tip, if ground is wet there is no way to make it stay rust free, no matter what chemical you use.

Cleaned metal has no dark spots, more sanding.

Painting, this one has some magic tricks which I don't know of, good luck. Oh one thing I know, wrap whole car with tape and paper, aim to air tight packaging so there is less sprayed paint to clean up afterwards, remember to get some chemical to clean up that sprayed paint from tires and windows, air tight seems often to be not so air tight
If you paint with rattle can, start with 5 layers of paint, it is really really thin layers that you can do with those, also read instructions and follow them.
I prefer air brush, it is so much easier to get nice looking surface, but it is lot of work to mix paint and clean tools after painting.
Spraying whole car with air brush is no big job, but preparing car is. Also covering areas that are not needed to be painted will take about 10 times more time than painting.

Oh yes, it is real pain, specially at beginning when one need to learn all tricks and methods, but I have heard it will get better when you are used to that work, I doubt that.

However when you get it right, it is 3 or more years of trouble free motoring (in your dreams)

[volvosneverdie]

good pointers everyone.
thanks very much for all contributions.
Cant believe there isnt a sticky for rust attack.

Cheers again.

[MJ]

Depends how much you've got, if it's just a bit of brown on the bottom edges of panels, here's what I've done and has worked thus far (a few years)

Make sure it's a really dry day, but preferably with the part out of direct sunlight.

Clean off rust and a bit of surrounding good paint to be sure you've got it all. I use a little dremel. I've found that the right attachment goes straight through the rusted paint to the metal but won't cut through good paint or solid metal very quickly, making it less likely to make a nasty mistake.

Once back to the metal it's recommended to degrease, but I've generally just wiped with dry, clean kitchen towel to be sure to keep it dry.

Then give it a coat or possibly two of hammerite primer (follow the recoat time recommendations). For small patches brushing is easier and ensures a thick enough (but not to thick) coat. It won't look as smooth, but what's most important on little bits, a slightly lumpy repair or rust coming back in a year or two?

Then finish with a coat or two of the right colour top coat.

Someone posed a couple great images for the waxoyl points on 300's (but was titled dinitrol points) but I can't find the post.

[Chris_C]

Cleaned metal has no dark spots, more sanding.

This used to catch me out loads when I was trying to catch the rust on Kar. Black metal is evil, its hard like proper metal but in not very long at all it'll sprout. Only super shiney silver metal can be left.

I use Hammerite No 1, or Davids 182 zinc primers. Just remember most primers arn't waterproof, so topcoat them. I'm wanting to test the Bilt Hamber primer (etchweld I think it's called) a group test in PC showed it abusing both the above, and all the other BH stuff I have tried seems pretty awesome.

[volvosneverdie]

cheers chris and mj.

hope my next day off is dry and i'll crack on.

[garth]

I own an AE86, UK car............ Now that's a mission to keep an 80's jap car clear of rust! I've had stuff cut out and put back in. I feel your pain mate.

[Fuse]

If you don't have acces to a sandblaster which to use to get all the rust out off the metal I would definately use real acid primer rather than hammerite or similiar universal primers. Get some proper acid primer from the vehicle paint shop and use that if there's any doubt that you haven't got all the rust out and that's usually the case when you sand the rust and don't sandblast it. If you can sandblast the rusted area the best primer is two-component epoxy primer but that requires a good surface and usually a "sanding color" sprayed after. (I don't know the proper word in english but that's the kind of paint you spray on after the primer and sand before applying the main coat)

You can get all these proper vehicle body paints mixed in rattle can also so there's no other point using the universal market-primers and paints other than those are way more cheaper.

And if you haven't painted anything before I would practise on some scrap metal. There's nothing more annoying than spending few hours doing prep work on your car and then spraying the paint just to find out that it came out really crappy, believe me I know.

The factory rustprotection treatment charts which MJ mentioned can be found here. http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/v ... php?t=3790

[jtbo]

cheers chris and mj.

hope my next day off is dry and i'll crack on.

What kind of tools you have to job?

It is possible to sand it by hand, but I have found it to be too slow, so some kind of machine is required, at least if your fitness is anything close to mine

Photos of what I have found to be good (not that I would be any good at removing rust):




All of these are good, specially that at lower right, just remember that sharp edges will wear it really really fast.


Angle grinder and electric drill are must, imo. You could get away with electric drill only, but it will take longer time. Without drill it is harder to get into small places.

Also I forgot one thing last time, when you see small spot, it is often several times larger under paint, so be prepared to whatever is underneath. Good idea is to sand bit larger area so you can see if there is some rust spots hiding which are not yet trough paint, sanding good metal and putting paint back is much easier than doing job twice.

Oh and with rattle cans one trick is use your thumb to press that 'button' then move your arm don't twist your wrist, less paint is better, just do several layers and wait enough long until next layer (says on can how long you must wait, but you need to take account temp and humidity as it affects to time).

[volvosneverdie]

Cheers Jani.
I was going to rub by hand really. But Ive got a p.o.s. drill somewhere, so i'll dig it out and source some appropriate spinning things to go on the spinning end.

Should make life a bit easier.