B200/B230 heads

Post by **Carl** » 12 Dec 2005 01:04 am

Dont worry, that made perfect sense. To me anyway!

I think what I might to is try to get hold of a normal B200 head sometime in the near future to experiment on. Will probably just involve a good overhaul and maybe a cam swap for now, but it will give me someting to do in the evenings!

Post by **jtbo** » 12 Dec 2005 01:07 am

Carl wrote:Road rally regs say no turbos. However engine tranplants can be done as long as they are normally aspirated, no more than 4 cylinders and retain the manufacturers original injection system. So I can use any B200/B230 as long as its normally aspirated and retians the original fuel system, but the turbo lumps and 6 cylinder lumps are a no-go.

Basically the 360 engine is too lazy for my liking. I've had a few quickish cars since my last one, and now it just feels a bit slow so I want to make it a bit livelier. But as you say £450 is a lot to spend. Maybe I should just get my angle grinder and dremmel out

Is it that when you shift 3rd gear car is bit hard to bend around those faster corners, it feels like ignition would be retarded by 10 degrees?

If that is the case, then you need different ratios

I know that I need, but I'm running on tarmac so could be that power is just enough for gravel.

Forget K/N and put hotter cam, cost is same power increase with hotter cam is 10 or more horsepower, with K/N you might even loose some power because of hotter intake air.

Mod airfilter box, take out flap front of it (heating, hot air from exhaust) then install some kind of duct to take colder air, I did put duct to place of foglamp so wind pushes air to airfilter box (I believe that is called ram charger effect), much more effective than K/N

I have monitored intake temps, over 10 degrees drop when I changed to original intake system instead od K/N like setup that took air between renix and battery. Also with cold air intake mod to air filter box I got 2kpa more pressure to intake manifold, could be more if I would make proper sealing for it and I will when I get time.

I'm forced to make all kind of ghetto tune ups as I'm not rich even I'm at work. But with these ghetto mods I have managed to get intake temp to same as outside temp and also 2kpa more pressure to intake manifold than ambient air pressure is when doing 80kph. Money spend to these mods maybe 5 euros to aluminium air duct/hose what ever it is called.

I think that it helps bit with power too, not sure as when I make dynorun speed is not quite enough to have good blow and that sealing of course is not yet ready.

With K-cam, that has biggest effect, around 20hp more, also 4000-6000 area is very responsive now, much easier to drive hard. Cost was around 100€

I hope that this had some help, please don't throw money away

Post by **foggyjames** » 12 Dec 2005 01:16 am

Ok, in that case definitely put a B230FB in there, then add a K cam. By far the biggest bang for your buck. Probably 150+bhp without further modification.

It uses LH2.4 rather than LE-Jet (which is a good thing)....but how exactly are they going to tell? Actually I'm guessing you meant you can't put aftermarket EMS in....allowing engine swaps, but forcing them to run on the original engine's EMS would be a whole new kind of stupid.

cheers

James

Post by **jtbo** » 12 Dec 2005 01:19 am

Btw, is there any regulations/rules of that class somewhere on internet?
What is that rally called?

Would be interesting to read what kind of sports this is as I think that in here there is nothing that compares?

Post by **Chris_C** » 12 Dec 2005 01:49 am

I think it's called the blue book, I had a quick glance over a copy the other day (seemingly hard copy version exist in the club me and Carl are in) as it now concerns me, there are lots of things I didn't think would matter (but then I'm new to all this)

Ahhh, excellent, from wikipedia.org

In order that the rally may be conducted smoothly, a number of standard principles have emerged that everyone expecting to take part should know. Each rally will be subject to a set of regulations "the regs" which are published beforehand and given to every competitor. Usually the regs will follow the standard regulations laid down by the motorsports governing body for your country, and these have the force of law. In the UK, the governing body is the Royal Automobile Club Motor Sports Association (RACMSA), and the regulations are published annually in the "blue book". Each rally must adhere to these regulations, though some rules permit some variation. In any case, you should familiarise yourself with the blue book for the sport you wish to take part in, and read the regs before the actual event.

Post by **jtbo** » 12 Dec 2005 02:13 am

I think this is equal to blue book in Finland, sorry I don't think that link has much value to you as it is in finnish. Anyway there is all rules to every form of motorsports and also changes needed to make to car, driver equipment, licences etc.
http://www.akk-motorsport.fi/saannot/default.html

But it seems to be that in UK it is only printed manual?

Is rollcage needed? What about interior, it is needed to removed? Here both of those are mandatory to take part to any kind of rally event, reduces potential racers quite well those rules as there is lot more, helmets and suits, seatbelts and fueltank need to be approved and that approval changes almost every year, very expensive.

Post by **Carl** » 12 Dec 2005 09:06 am

Yeah I meant the new engine has to use the injection system it came with iin the donor car.

TBH engine swaps are a long way off, but getting the knowledge so I know what I want in case something pops up is useful.

jtbo, I like your cold air idea. My fog lights have already been removed to make way for brake cooling ducts so routing some air up to the filter shouldnt be an issue. I was planning to put some heat sheild around the pipe that goes across the radiator, as even though its a bad design it should help keep water out of the engine if passing through deep puddles!

Road rallies are the lowest level of rallying designed for near standard cars. There are limits to the type of mods you can make because they are conducted on public roads - so a full on WRC is not appropriate. It's all set out in the Blue Book, written by the MSA. Next year there's some big changes regarding the cars you can use. If you're interested I can give you a breif overview later, but I have to go to work now, and I'm late again

Post by **volvorsport** » 13 Dec 2005 01:03 pm

well , having lived in the middle of road rally land for a few years , the std injection /manifold/throttle body isnt a restriction .

a chap had a 1.9 205 , had the ecu remapped was cleaning up - but he spent quite a bit of money .

anyway - if your going to have the head done - can you fit bigger valves ? that would be worth more than porting alone - the ports are very good as std . for that price i can do you a cylinder head with bigger valves .

and if your thinking of remapping then consider a cam from sweden - the volvo cams are only like the ford gt equivalent .

im not sure the LH can be remapped easily , im sure its been done - how cheap i dont know - could you get away with MS ?

youre allowed two chokes , that means you can fit twin SU - something to think about .

think about a 2.5 crank , for more torque .

other than that a 16v is youre next option - but they need revving , to go anywhere .

and after all that , if you dont thrash the splines of the torque tube !!!! good luck .

i await the next round of questions

Post by **Chris_C** » 13 Dec 2005 02:41 pm

By LH, you mean LE and the jetronic effort mate? I'm planning on actually working out what that system does soon, I'm a tad keen on electronics, should be able to work the circuit backwards when I get a spare little while (so not for a week or two at least) plus I don't actually have an injection 300 anymore.

What I will need, is for someone to explain (or point me to a source of learning) of how FI works, engine side. From memory the circuit has lots of sub bits to change different things, some might be there for other reasons (i.e. something that should never be changed).

Basically, I'm guessing it's all about different timings relative to something, if someone points out the useful timings to change (at a complete guess, I'd think that the length of time an injector injects would be a good one...) and I should be able to tell you which bits of the bits to change for different values.

I hope

Post by **classicswede** » 13 Dec 2005 06:58 pm

The quick cheap answer has to be to drop in a good 2.3 complete with injection system. I cant see it being wirth spending a lot of money on the 2ltr only to get the same power as dropping in the 2.3

Post by **jtbo** » 13 Dec 2005 09:56 pm

classicswede wrote:The quick cheap answer has to be to drop in a good 2.3 complete with injection system. I cant see it being wirth spending a lot of money on the 2ltr only to get the same power as dropping in the 2.3

Agree, with good cam and fuel injection it is near 150hp/190nm, also good middle/low rpm power which could be great when rallying, specially when gears are not too good for narrow powerband like 2l engine has

Post by **Ronnie** » 13 Dec 2005 10:08 pm

I like the sound of dropping in a bigger engine - especially if it's got a turbo already bolted to it

I've read already that all redblocks are very similar in terms of outside dimensions and should drop straight in to the old mounts, prop, manifold etc. My concern is the electrics...

How easy is it to splice a bigger engine with/without turbo into a 360i? Who's actually done it - and what problems have they encountered? (Sorry if I'm hijacking)

Post by **classicswede** » 13 Dec 2005 10:42 pm

Its not very difficult really. We have done many engine swaps here including a 2.3 turbo into a 240. If you stay na you could keep the original fuel system.

If anyone is interested my brother is due to break a 940 with 2.3 n/a motor.

Post by **Carl** » 14 Dec 2005 12:29 am

Oooooo, I may well be very interested! Any idea what sort of money he'd be after?

Post by **volvorsport** » 14 Dec 2005 01:11 am

ive got 4 B230 , one B23 (brand new block) , and a 16v , with new bearings also .