Yet another car won't start thread (it is running!)

B14, B172, B19/200, D16 engine, ignition, cooling, fuel & exhaust system, gearbox, variomatic, final drive... | Tuning: engine swaps, welded diff, clutch upgrades...
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jtbo
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Post by jtbo »

That is really great collection of carbs :D
I think some of those weird models might be good value at sometime in future as are part of model history then?

Oh, now I remember, I did took some pics from my carb when I did take it apart once, long time ago, it worked after that I remember.
http://www.janiervast.com/gallery.bk/g2 ... bum/album/

Sorry that there is no thumbnails, I just got permissions sorted with my isp and need to rebuild my gallery...

At winter I had trouble with brake servo, it randomly lost vacuum effect but it got ok when weather got bit warmer to -20C and it did work normally.
I could of course test that by bloking hose that goes to manifold from brake servo.

Then there is this gasket between intake manifold and carb.

Those are vacuum leak possibilites that I need to rule out if other carb don't work.
Gasket between intake manifold and cylinder head should be ok, I was very careful and removed any dirt from surfaces so I don't believe it can have such huge leak that would be needed to cause fuel not to be sucked from float bowl (if fuel is not sucked from bowl, where it does go, this puzzles my mind a bit).

Also if other carb does not work there is fuel pickup and pumping issues that I must rule out, even they seem to be not possible, they must be tested with some alternative to reliable proof they are ok.

First mistake of fault finding is that one thinks something to be ok, nothing is ok unless proven to be ok, this is one of basic rules, which I often forget :P

There is now one possibility that may caused this problem:
I connected all fuel hoses and I did use old mechanical pump, I did install fuel filter, but I did install it to fuel pump input side, but that should have been installed to hose that goes to carb.

This is purely fantasy, but I believe that this has happened, as fuel filled pump it took some dirt from pump that has not been pumping fuel for year, then it pumped dirt to separator unit and then I battery got flat.
Next day I changed to electric pump that I used to pump fuel and now that dirt from separator unit did go to carb.

There is filter in carb, but still I remember now that at some point there was black dirt at bottom of float bowl that have to come with fuel.

Only problem in this is that filter in carb, it should not let that dirt go to carb. So I need to check that filter too, I was not quite sure which way to install it back when I checked it before installing carb, but it seemed to fit only one way.

Ah, it won't get better with guessing and thinking, perhaps I just try some tricks tomorrow if there is no rain, at least I will have excuse to get hands dirty :D
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mac
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Post by mac »

Hi Wouter, I remember those carbs with the modified float chamber tops very well indeed - go for a drive, stop, wait 10mins, whip open bonnet to see how much fuel vapourisation had taken place. Repeat - but waiting 15mins - etc., etc, etc. (we used an early 300 remote air filter so we had a clear view of the carb).

For those interested, there was a problem of hesitant running for a while after a hot start (after engine had been stopped for about 15-20 mins). It was traced to heat soak causing vapour bubbles to form within the fuel in the float chamber. The main jets would then draw an emulsion of liquid and gaseous fuel leading to a varying mixture and hence hesitation, 'kangerooing' etc.
(the jets were calibrated to draw only liquid of course). Several carbs were modified by fitting glass 'windows' in the top of the float chamber so we could actually see what was going on inside. I remember carbs with fitted thermocouples but didn't actually run any tests with them myself.

In the UK we also had a carb microswitch instead of the Tachometric relay (for 1977 only) but we never had the decelleration 'dashpot'.

Regards (and thanks for the memory) - Mac.
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Post by jtbo »

Guys, these bits of information are gold indeed, really adds lot our hobby :D

If you ever write a book from those early days of 300 I'm sure to buy one :P
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Post by jtbo »

Filter that is inside carb was installed wrong way, it is quite small, but there is no excuse for installing it wrong as there is hole only in one end, certainly my brain has been switched off when I installed it and when I did check it first time.

Now it should run, but I managed to broke main power relay connector, that reminded me that I did quick temporaly fix for it more than one year ago.... Well, will do properly this time.
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Post by jtbo »

Have been fighting all day with car now.

There is two possibilities, either carb will flood really bad (fuel coming out from every hole like using garden hose) or then carb will not have fuel at all (float chamber is absolutely dry.

I don't need to adjust anything to get this changed, I just open top of carb and bolt it back and it certainly is everytime as it changes to flooding or empty when I open top of carb.

Reasons why this happens:
Float is getting stuck for some reason even it moves really well when I move it by hand.

I assemble carb somehow wrong way that causes float to stuck and it has been flooding or being dry every odd and even times by something that logic cannot explain.
(Is there many ways to bolt that top of carb?)

Some evil druid has cast weird spell over my car and it is impossible to make it to work as even I can one problem fixed there is new problem soon.

As I'm bit clumsy at times, I got now float axle damaged, this tube looking brass part got bit deformed when I tried to adjust float height with pliers as I thought that it will be reason for this odd behaviour, but float height has no connection to this problem at all.
Anyway I need to find way how I can make that short tube looking thing fixed as it might be needed for float to operate as planned.

I try to find drill that I can fix that brass part at least...
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Post by Chris_C »

Jani, use your thumb on the tab of the float, when the pivot isn't attached ;)

One silly thing I did when assembling my carb back together... make sure you get the main top carb gasket the right side of the float before you put the pivot back, got me confused for a while!
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
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Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast
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Post by jtbo »

Chris_C wrote:Jani, use your thumb on the tab of the float, when the pivot isn't attached ;)

One silly thing I did when assembling my carb back together... make sure you get the main top carb gasket the right side of the float before you put the pivot back, got me confused for a while!
Thanks again from tips :)

I think that gasket part is ok as it seem to be attached tightly to where it is installed, so I never have removed it :P

Sorry, I must ask really stupid questions now :oops:

What is tab of the float and what is this pivot ?

Really sorry to ask these, I can only blame my lack of english knownledge :oops:

http://www.janiervast.com/gallery.bk/g2 ... bb200k.jpg

There is now picture of parts, I guess pivot is that pin numbered 45? Also float seem to be numbered 45 in there.

I know tab from computers only :oops: Maybe you mean that little tongue like thing that is in float arm and pushes ball bearing causing valve to close?
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Post by antiekeradio »

both questions; yes.
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Post by jtbo »

antiekeradio wrote:both questions; yes.
Good, at least I can still guess right :lol:

I got another question, can I use water in carb instead of fuel for testing purposes or does it harm something inside of carb? Of course carb is then needed to remove from car.
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Post by antiekeradio »

it will not be harmfull in a short period of time (dont leave it too long, like weeks)

but water has some different properties from fuel... it 'sticks together' more.
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Post by Chris_C »

Cheers Wouter!

Sorry Jani, thought those were the best words to refer to things by! By pivot, I actually ment the axle of the floats, but I'm guessing you got it right, otherwise it wouldn't go back together at all!
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast
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Post by jtbo »

This float axle is now fixed, found also that fuel valve (needle valve direct translation) is sticky, it is very loose too and also can stick sometimes, not very tight but needs a tap to get moving again.

I try to use brake cleaner and perhaps diesel to clean that thing.
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Post by antiekeradio »

needle valve is sticky (..) not very tight but needs a tap to get moving
well theres your problem with the no-fuel / way too much fuel.

it should move, with 0,0 resistance.
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Post by jtbo »

Yes, that was defineatly the reason as now with cleaned part it is very good, fuel level stays where I do set it etc. Tomorrow, I will adjust idle speed and mixture, also some other things as car now runs with choke ;)

I still might get new valve as I'm not sure how long cleaning does help.

But I do have one of cleanest carbs now, I did spend 3 hours for cleaning it and that was just outside of carb, then I took all parts out that I could and cleaned them too.

Also I made adjustments with most precision and care this time, one thing I'm pretty sure is that Haynes is wrong, float height can't be 33.8mm as float itself is 34-35mm high, I think that measurement in haynes is fuel level in float chamber. In picture at Haynes there someone is measuring float level and I'm sure that it is something between 38-40mm, so I did adjust it now so that fuel level is 33.8mm was not easy as needed to measure how much float is sunk when put in fuel etc...

I'm sure there is still some troubles left, most likely some vacuum leaks, but I have learned a lot from carbs now and I need to say big thank you to all you great ppl that have helped me with this :D
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Post by Chris_C »

Erm, havn't got a Haynes in front of me mate, but it's usually from the gasket to the bottom of the float, although I do see the problem if the float is that big. I reckon though if you are doing fuel levels in the float chamber, you are gonna be quite a few mills out, problem is I know nothing about that carb :(
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast
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