Uprated clutch to fit 1.4 340? (GTT conversion) Info...

[Stavros]

Hmm. looked at a R5 GTT engine whilst I was away. All the engine block will bolt straight in in all probability, and would work fine. However, the turbo and manifolds will need a lot of modding, including all the pipework and the intercooler, cos basically its all in the wrong place as the R5 engine mounts transversely in the R5 and would mount longditunally in the Volvo.

Err...

GTT Inlet manifold would need NO modding. Why would it? Depending on intercooler piping i may turn the carb elbow 90deg, but thats mega easy.

Exhaust manifold will put the turbo where the heater box is, ive not measured it but there is MUCH more room than people make out.
Heater box and matrix pipes will need moving if wanted it there, at MOST it will need the bulkhead lighly massaging with a sledge hammer, but in my opinion it would fit without mods, but either way its very minor. That "problem" seems to be another myth, and looking at the bay it took me all of 30secs to see alternative ways to do it for no real money...

Personally as its such an enourmous engine bay id either mod the stock 1.4 ex manifold to take a turbo, or run a link pipe from that manifold round to wherever you fancy putting the turbo, or run the GTT manifold with a link pipe to wherever you fancy putting the turbo (there deffo IS room to do that with ease).

Turbo wont need modding at all, at most, depending where you fancy putting the turbo, you can rotate the housings to make the install neater, but thats a 10min job as turbos housings are made like that for that reason.

Pipework to intercooler is obviously gonna need adapting, but it will on ANY conversion, and if you class that as a problem then you shouldnt even modify cars.
Stock intercoolers are pants anyhow, and 340s are blessed with a stupidly big engine bay (well, when the tiny 1.4 is in it!), so fitting a huge FMIC is mega easy, and any clown can hunt around and knock up some pipes to fit.

Ancillary vac pipes and so on for the breather and carb etc I always mod to Super Coupe Cup spec anyhow so they not an issue.

Water hoses will be almost identical, well totally if you dont bother with water cooling to turbo.
As with the other pipes, id mod/simplify the water sys if it was a GTT to SCC spec anyhow.

Oil return pipe goes into sump on GTT, id use a stock 340 sump with the oil return welded on, another quick job.

I dont see any issues with this conversion at all.

Where on the other hand im sure id get well confused on a 1.7turbo conversion, which just shows it bloody helps to deal with an engine you know!

[Fuse]

When changing the whole engine, I wouldn't bother messing with the original manifolds, even if they would fit. Making a tubular exhaust manifold which has equal length runners and a good collector is the best option and shouldn't be too hard if one knows how to weld. Manifold like that flows much better than the stock ones and you can place the turbo where you want it.

And of course you can make the flanges as you like, easy to put a more modern turbo in place.

[Stavros]

Your right Fuse, but im trying to do this for a MEGA low budget, something that wont allow custom manifolds (im no welder/fabricator, im good at tuning, and ok at general spannering, but not actually making shit, so would need to pay someone for that ), and the stock stuff is good for way over 200bhp, which is more than I will go for anyhow.

I got a 800bhp+ Skyline GTR and a 200SX drift car to fund, i cant afford to spend a lot on the 340!

I just want a cheap toy to have a lot of fun in and shock the hell out of people, and nothing will do that more than a stock looking granny-mobile 1.4 340 hanging sideways everywhere with clouds of smoke coming from the tyres, lol.

[Fuse]

Yeah I get your point, because I'm building on a budget too... And you are right that there's no point adding bits which are "too" good for the power figures you are aiming.

I have also a kinda home-made solution in my 360 too..

I have a turbo manifold from 240/740 and there's an adapter pipe between the turbo and the manifold to clear the engine mount (would be tight fit with the stock T3 wastegate and the 300-series engine mount without any adapter) and it works fine with the power figures I'm currently satisfied with..

Though my car was originally built in somwhere late 80's (don't know who built it, actually don't know much about the car's history) so things were bit different back then but I'm not going to change it untill it's not sufficient enough for my power needs.

[classicswede]

Hi,

nice to see you on this forum.
I would suggest using the GTT flywheel and clutch pressure plate. There is even a remote chance the clutch plate will also fit. If not then use a 340 one. I would personaly have thoght they would be the same tbh.

I would agree you are best keeping as much of the GTT engine bits as possible to save funds - no point spending when you dont have to.

Stav do you go on the SXOC forum? There is a way to save a fortune in running cost you know.

[Stavros]

elo mate.

looking at that other thread on here about fitting a GTT lump to a 340, the guy shows the pics, and the flywheel and clutches are different sizes, and the splines dont line up, so that looks like a no-go im afraid

shame really, as youd think theyd be the same.

but as sachs make the uprated plates its not too bad.

i use the SXOC forum sometimes, not often, but go there anytime i need anything.
save a fortune in running costs? mines in so many pieces that running costs isnt an issue, lol

Ali mentioned the 4spd 1.4 diff is lower ratio than the 5spd, and if thats right, can you fit the 4spd diff to the 5spd box with relative ease? (i take it the 340 runs some form of transaxle)
Mega close gearing would be nice...

[foggyjames]

The 5 speed runs a shorter ratio than the 4 speed...it would do, wouldn't it - it's got a longer gear to 'soak up'

I'd change the exhaust manifold as it get around two issues...firstly that the stock GTT one looks like a shoddy bodge to make it fit an R5, and secondly that this bodge means it won't fit a 300 nicely. As I see it, one piece of (not too major) custom work would get you a far technically superior manifold which fits nicely....and you get to keep the heater

Assuming it clears the bellhousing, I'd use the R5 flywheel and as much of the clutch as you can. I wouldn't be surprised if everything bar the disc can be used.

cheers

James

[Stavros]

The 5 speed runs a shorter ratio than the 4 speed...it would do, wouldn't it - it's got a longer gear to 'soak up'

you sure? many cars 4speed rear diffs that are lower ratio than the 5speed, to make the big gearchange gaps less of an issue.
if your not sure, please say so, as seems half this forum is driven by rumour, lol.
but i take your point, i can think of a good few with higher too...

if the 4speed just as strong as the 5? does anyone know that???

I'd change the exhaust manifold as it get around two issues...firstly that the stock GTT one looks like a shoddy bodge to make it fit an R5, and secondly that this bodge means it won't fit a 300 nicely. As I see it, one piece of (not too major) custom work would get you a far technically superior manifold which fits nicely....and you get to keep the heater

Have you ever had any real dealings with the above?
Stock GTT one is perfectly fine. I have dealt with enough of them. They are no restriction even at 200bhp+
Its not a shoddy bodge, its perfectly fine, not pretty, but works.
It doesnt make it anywhere near as in the wrong place as rumour has it, and besides, ive already listed perfectly suitable solutions.

Where you think i could get a decent tubular manifold made to suit, considering relative complexity as its intertwines with the inlet, and the fact the person would need the car with them to sort it, for under 500quid?
And 500quid is no doubt twice or more what the car is worth.

So my 500quid+ and loadsa effort gets me what? A manifold far more likely to crack, a manifold that will be much harder to mount up due to nuts being hidden more behind pipe, and possibly less low down power due to the larger/longer headers for no noticable gain at the top end.
Oh, and itd impress some randoms on a car forum.

That dont sound like 500quid+ well spent, frankly

Assuming it clears the bellhousing, I'd use the R5 flywheel and as much of the clutch as you can. I wouldn't be surprised if everything bar the disc can be used.

Well like mentioned, looking at that other thread, sizes are fairly different, but dont seem an issue when uprated plates are available for the 1.4 340 clutch anyhow.

This thread shows why you cant use a GTT clutch...
http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/v ... c&start=15

But that issue has been solved anyhow, thanks to fuse, on page 1...

[foggyjames]

I am sure about the diff ratios. 4 speed (after about 1981) runs a 3.64, and the 5 speed runs a 3.82. The boxes are near enough as strong as each other. The 5 speed is a 4 speed with a add-on, but it's known to hold over 300hp if you're reasonably careful with it.

I've had a good look at a GTT engine, and to a trained eye that's enough to determine the way it was designed. The manifold is a log with the turbo flange mounted to one end. Logs are usually only used where there's no space for a 'proper' manifold. Maybe it can support good power, but I'd get rid of it, given the fitment issues....but then I'd like to keep the heater If it's a racing car, it would be a lot easier to use the stock item.

If I was going to do it, I'd make a tubular manifold myself, and if it's made properly it won't crack. You'd design it to do whatever you want of it, so you wouldn't lose bottom end unless you design it that way.

All I can suggest with the clutches is that you collect parts from both cars, and work out what fits what. That's what I'm doing with the flywheel/clutch combo for my 360. As you say, actually trying it cuts through the BS. We're all here trying to suggest sensible things to help people, but we can't have tried everything already - everyone is still experimenting. We don't pretend to know it all.

cheers

James

[big_wig_074]

theres nothing wrong with log manifolds at all,ive personally run over 400 bhp and 400lb/ft (418/409 to be precise) on a 2 litre 16 v engine using a non tubular manifold.to get the manifold to not crack the easiest way would be to not make it from stainless,or brace the hell out of it,but why bother?theres a good reason you dont see loads of manifold swaps on r5 turbos,they are not needed,the std one is fine for over 200bhp and making a tubular one would cost soooo much in time and money it would negate the minute (if any at all) benefits and only lead to more headscratching down the line if it cracked etc...
as for the heater,well,the matrix is still there after the box is removed by the looks of it,so its EASY to knock up a small ally shield into the matrix with a suitable fan (FAR easier than a manifold which you may get wrong!)
the motor is gonna be sweet steve (it bloody better be as ill be driving the sodding thing day to day!)

[Stavros]

cool, so 5speeder and diff is best bet, but both are decent strength.

aye, "not ideal" and "perfectly fucking fine" is the same thing in many cases.

log manifolds are far less of an issue on turbo cars anyhow.

all you get with a log one (providing the flow is fine, like it IS on a GTT) is unequal length runners, whoop de doo, go tell the countless porkers and subarus with mega power and wildly unequal length manifolds they doing it wrong...

you say about knocking up a tubular manifold like its childs play, if it was everyone would just fab up some mounts and pop in T5 motors, but they dont, cause it aint...

please, i appreciate the help on things i dont know, i dont need to be told about stuff i already know, especially when its contradicting stuff i know not to be true cause ive experience of it rather than just heard on the grapevine...

greg- id never normally reccomend a tuned GTT lump on a daily drive, as although they strong as hell, they always having lil niggly probs, but as you have the spanner skills, they shouldnt be a prob.
possibly... lol

[Fuse]

Well.. On the other hand I wouldn't say either that tubular manifolds will crack and don't give any advantage over log manifolds, because that is not true either..

Because when built properly it won't crack. People are not doing T5 swaps with 300-series because it is not a popular car among builders, but if you look the other Volvos being built, it's another situation. (Numerous T5 and T6 swaps in Sweden with 100, 200, 700, and 900-series Volvos, Amazons, PVs and other..) Though the fastest are running good old redblock engine because it is stronger above 400hp. Allmost all high-power Volvos are running tubular manifolds, though the Volvo stock manifold is kinda crap what comes to flow and big turbos like Holsets and such wont bolt on to it easily.

[Stavros]

Nothing wrong with fancy custom manifolds, hell, look at the ones on my GTR...



But its just getting on my nerves a little when people are saying "do this, do that" when I know for a fact, thru experience, that its not needed.

I know GTT ones will cost me nothing, I know GTT ones are more than good enough for the power I want, I know that GTT will cause no major fitting problems, but people who have never tried them are still telling me not to use them, lol

[big_wig_074]

steve,ill be doing a fair few less miles shortly anyway so the daily driver will be less of an issue like,but it will be the only car on the drive once rad has the nova away from me!cant fookin wait!

[foggyjames]

Steve,

You're right, you can still make perfectly good power on a log manifold, but it isn't ideal (for example, there's no chance of pulse pairing the manifold for a dual scroll turbo), and I like to do things in an unnecessarily 'right' way. To be fair, for a true budget build, I'd probably stick with the log manifold, providing it proves to fit properly.

you say about knocking up a tubular manifold like its childs play, if it was everyone would just fab up some mounts and pop in T5 motors, but they dont, cause it aint...

It's not hard if you've got welding skills. Most people who haven't don't play with custom car work. Either that or you pay someone else to do it...and live by the 'gotta pay to play' ethos. I don't weld at present, but I'm learning. Most people here barely touch their cars mechanically, so I think welding custom mounts is a bit out of their league. Several people would love a T5 swap, but can't do it themselves, and can't justify the cost of having it done professionally. Having said that, I know quite a few people who have sucessfully built their own manifolds, and at minimal cost.

--------------

This is a friendly site, and I think you could do with chilling the fook out a bit. If you've got fresh info to share, then we'll all be very pleased to see it. I'd love to see a GTT swapped 340. Not everything on this site is pure conjecture...but by virtue of the fact that there's not that many of us actively modifying the cars, and no-one who has the knowledge of the GTT motor required to extract the power necessary to make it worth using over a 1.7 or Volvo motor, this is a largely unexplored avenue.

If you want to take this info, however sketchy, and run with it, be my guest. You sound like you're in a position (which not many people are) to pioneer this swap in the UK, and that is bound to get you a lot of credit...but there's no need to piss everyone off in the process.

I wanna see a GTT mani and snail bolted up in a 340 bay as much as the next man, so let's see some pics

cheers

James