Engine swap procedure help needed!!!

[Fuse]

I've got some new information.

LH-Jetronic 2.2 doesn't take ANY info from the flywheel, sensor for the ignition is in the dizzy, so it is possible to run 360 flywheel with this.

LH-Jetronic 2.4 has a crankshaft position sensor on the flywheel so ignition unit in 2.4 needs it's own flywheel to work.

BUT I still don't know if it is possible to separate ignition from the fueling, even though those are separate units. This one guy told me that those units share some wires but he didn't know if those units could work individually. He said that by looking the diagrams, it seems that at least 2.2 and 117EZK could be separated, they share couple wires but connecting those properly, the fueling side might work alone also. He hadn't checked the situation with 2.4 and it's igniton yet.

But what ever the situation is, the fuel ECU needs the signal from the ignition, no matter what the ignition is. But you can get the ignition signal out from any ignition so that's not a problem.

There's not much info about this, because I think no one has ever tried to run LH-Jet's fueling alone without the ignition part.

Ignition with the LH-Jetronic is EZK 11x.

I don't know if this is any help but here's wiring diagrams for LH-Jetronic and different EZK ignitions used with LH-Jet

http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/volvo.html

I've not checked those much yet so I can't tell anything from them. I'll study those diagrams a bit more when I have time, though I'm not an electric engineer, just a hobby..

So if someone who knows more about the electrical stuff can tell something of those diagrams, which would be help for this, please tell.

[Bossie]

I'm supposed to get the complete wiring, I told the guy I'm buying the eingine from I want every wire to and from the engine, should the wiring should be complete.
So it might be that I don't even have to do any flywheel work depending on if the engine uses LH-Jetronic 2.2 or 2.4?

[foggyjames]

Bossie - I'm guessing it was you that emailed me the other day. I'll send you a proper reply probably tomorrow - it has been a very busy weekend!

Personally, I'd definitely, definitely make the original management system fit in a 300, rather than starting off on MS, etc, as part of the first phase of your work. MS is cool, but a LOT of work, especially compared to making a flywheel fit inside a bellhousing.

Ali...there is loads of advice on Turbobricks regarding "+T"ing a standard block, including where to plumb the oil lines. Personally, I'd adapt the bellhousing / flywheel to make LH fit, use your pimp ECU, and use it with a B200FT block. Sure you have to swap engines, but it's not that hard really (just hire a hoist and get some mates round ), and it's much neater. If you don't fancy that, there are a number of access points to the high-pressure areas of the oil system for the feed, and a couple of ways of rigging up the drain/return. FWIW, the oilpan comes out on a 300 without moving the engine...dead easy!

I wouldn't even think about trying to boost on LE / Renix. A Renix box from a GTT might do you, but I'd not even go there personally - there's no way it'll be optimised for a B200.

cheers

James

[V6 Man]

I've got some new information.

LH-Jetronic 2.2 doesn't take ANY info from the flywheel, sensor for the ignition is in the dizzy, so it is possible to run 360 flywheel with this.

LH-Jetronic 2.4 has a crankshaft position sensor on the flywheel so ignition unit in 2.4 needs it's own flywheel to work.

Unless it's the LH 2.2/EZ 115 K combination as fitted to the B280 V6's. They have a flywheel sensor and interestingly knock sensors too which most LH 2.2 cars didn't have.

The key though is the EZ 115 K ign system, as said above LH2.2 doesn't care by which means the ign system gets its information - all it needs is a signal from the ign system to tell it the car is turning over.

[Bossie]

just another question,
If you have a engine from 88, so with weaker conrods, is it possible if you want to be safe to get the stronger conrods in the engine or is there a problem to fit them?
Not that I will have more than 200 hp from the engine, but I want to be safe and if I'm taking the engine a part anyway.....

[foggyjames]

200hp is no problem at all on 9mm rods. A guy in the US has dyno'd over 300hp on 9mm rods, although that was with a very well tuned EMS, not bodging a stock system. A lot of problems related to poor tuning have been blamed on the 'weak' rods, but very few Volvo people are actually making enough power to endanger the 9mms.

Ryan's 740 Turbo is about as quick as a top of the range Scoob, and he's on 9mms. I'd not worry about it at all.

cheers

James

[Fuse]

Ok.. Flywheel thing sorted out.. The so called "dual mass" flywheel found in bigger Volvos is a thicker than the one in 300-series with Renix ignition.

So if one wants to use the dm-flywheel from the bigger Volvo, he needs to machine out the outer ring/lip from the flywheel, so it will fit and also grind the bellhousing a bit to make room for the pressure plate bolts.

Here is the stock dm-flywheel, outer lip/ring is still in place:
http://www.home.no/performance-egon/1.jpg

Here is the machined one, as can be seen, there's no outer lip anymore:
http://www.home.no/performance-egon/2.jpg

Here's the machined bellhousing:
http://www.home.no/performance-egon/3.jpg

One also must make a hole on the bellhousing and make attatchment points for the crankshaft position sensor of the LH-Jet.

http://www.home.no/performance-egon/4.jpg

And the clutch fork also needs to be modified a bit as the throw out bearing has a bit different attatchment than the one in 300-series.

http://www.home.no/performance-egon/5.jpg

BUT there's also another and much more simplier way! There are also so called single mass flywheels available, which have the suitable triggering wheel for LH-Jet. Lighter single mass flywheel will fit in place without any need of machining. (Except the hole and attatchment points for the crankshaft position sensor and I don't know if the clutch fork needs to be modified with this one, but even if it would need modification, it's not a major job)

Suitable single mass flywheel with proper triggering wheel for LH-Jet can be found from 240 from -89 to -93 and from 740/940 from -89 to -94 (turbo models from -90 to -94).

So that is much easier solution. But it is good to make sure that it really is a single mass flywheel with the proper triggering wheel, because there are also sigle mass flywheels with Renix ignition trigger wheel.

LH-Jet needs a triggering wheel which has 58 holes as Renix ones have 40.

Of course you can also drill the holes yourself on to the single mass flywheel without any triggering wheel.

I hope this clears things out a bit. If something is unclear I can try to explain better. As English isn't my native language, it's harder to describe technical stuff sometimes..

[foggyjames]

Oh crikey, I never thought it would be something that simple/stupid! Of course the dual mass won't fit...I'm amazed anyone even tried! I was worried that the 'dished' flywheel didn't fit either. Don't do that to me, not good for my blood pressure

The dual mass flywheel came with 940s with M90 gearboxes, while the standard 'dished' flywheel (very, very similar to the 360 one, but with the correct timing marks for LH2.4) is in the earlier cars with M46/47 gearboxes.

cheers

James

[Bossie]

@ fuse/james..

So all this info will have following concequences for my project, correct me if I'm wrong I just want to get everything sorted. So could you please verify...

Changes required:
I will have to change oilsump on T engine witch oilsump from my B200E.

I will have to change the oilpump om T eingine with pump from my B200E.

Enginemounts or manifold.

Flywheel:
The flywheel work depends on wich version of LH jet the engine uses.
If 2.2 I will not have to do any work on the flywheel?
If 2.4 I will have to do work on the flywheel? I shoul be looking for a m46/47 gearbox to find the correct flywheel, 58 holes?

Clutch:
depending on how much power I want, I have to do something about the clutch, like sachs VW or opel products?

The GLT gearbox has the shortest gears, would it be wise to install a GL gearbox since I mostly drive Motorways?

[Ali]

Which I pressume also means im f**cked for going +T on the B200e as the standard ignition won't work and the flywheel needs changing

[foggyjames]

Bossie,

That's right. You'll also need to swap the waterpump and pulley from the B200E, as it's shorter.

I'm not sure about LH2.2, as we never got it here on redblocks. If it is distributor triggered then yes, no need to change the flywheel.

Carb engine 360s typically have a 3.36 diff, while injection cars typically have 3.64. For lots of motorway use, and given the extra power, the 3.36 is probably a good idea.

Ali...just change the flywheel mate! Do it at the same time you yank out that B200E and drop the (pre-drilled for oil lines) FT block in

cheers

James

[Ali]

D'oh! Suppose its the right way to go really though, just need to source one, find a way of getting it to my house and slap it in there (if only it was that easy, wishful thinking eh!)

[foggyjames]

Mate...if you want to bring your car up here, I'm more than willing to help out. I can probably source a block for reasonable cash. Dave has a hoist which I'm sure we can gain access to.....although I may well buy one myself in due course.

cheers

James

[Ali]

Thats a very good offer mate, need to finish the cage and then sort how i'm going to transport the car from now onwards, think I might struggle with finding one day/one week insurance on a modified car and I can't really claim its standard anymore lol

[foggyjames]

I don't know if you're a VOC member, but try calling Adrian Flux, get their best quote, and then get Chris Knott (the VOC people) to beat it. They don't seem to be put off by modifications, and are good people to deal with.

It might be painful in the short term, but I'd keep it road legal if you can - trailer hire/purchase isn't cheap, and short-term cover soon adds up....says the man with three insurance policies and counting...

cheers

James