Are our seat belt laws an infringement of our Human Rights.

[petefarrell360]

It's automatic for me to put the seatbelt on. However one of my mates has been caught and fined twice, in the same spot for failing to wear his seatbelt. I thought he'd got the message after being caught once. However instead of seeing that it is for his own good, he still feels it means he must increase his awareness of Police who may pull him over for not wearing it. Surely it's easier and safer just to put it on! Another mate has also been caught and fined.

They either claim they forget, it's not far enough to bother with it, or it's annoying. An accident can occur over any distance, whether it be in the middle of a 500 mile journey, or in a 500 yard trip down the road. If we knew roughly if or when an accident would occur, that'd save a lot of problems!

There are certain circumstances when wearing a seatbelt in certain accidents can do more harm than good, however incidents are outweighed by the good a seatbelt does in the majority of cases. I'd rather not be learning to fly through a windscreen, then how to skid my face along the tarmac after an accident.

What annoys me a bit is when people don't wear seatbelts in the rear of a car, thinking it doesn't really apply to them, (although it does tend to be the older generation, possibly coming from the times when seatbelts weren't fitted in the rear of vehicles). We've all seen the advert of what happens when someone doesn't wear their seatbelt in the back of a car with the Pizza? If it doesn't affect anyone else in any way shape or form, then if you feel for whatever reason you want to increase the risk of dying by ignoring a safety device, then feel free. But if it can affect someone else, such as being a rear passenger without a seatbelt, then I think it's very wrong!

Pete

[sven360]

Is it an infringement on our human rights?-you bet it is.

Too many people also think they are indistructible by wearing a seatbelt-here's the news you're not.
I put harnesses in my car and hurl them over the shoulder so to plod they look right-whether they are done up is another matter

An accident is defined in the dictionary as an unforseen event or one without apparent cause-it's hardly without apparent cause when someone shunts you up the rear end due to:

A- doing their makeup/picking nose/tuning radio
B-tailgating at warp factor 3 in the fog
C-looking at passenger when talking
etc.etc You could go on and on and on

Driver education is much more important than a seatbelt.
Drifters/rally or other disciplines all teach you the right thing to do if it goes wrong,whereas plugging a seatbelt on and not having a clue what to do in my opinion is not the answer.
I realise many will disagree but I'm lucky as oop north the rebel forces are strong and I enjoyed life before the law change in 84/85? when a belt was optional

I await your comments with baited breath

[SoLaMaNdA]

What happens to a child in the car being driven poorly? Do they deserve to be injured/killed because they weren't wearing a seatbelt?

I get your point, there does need to be a focus on driver ability but no matter how good a driver is they are only human and outside forces can also cause a crash.

[Ali]

I didn't like changing to the S40 with normal belts after being used to harnesses in the 360 for about a year n a half, definately wouldn't feel safe without anything...... but maybe thats not a bad thing, the harnesses did give a bit of a false sense of security

[sven360]

What happens to a child in the car being driven poorly? Do they deserve to be injured/killed because they weren't wearing a seatbelt?

What d'you think?

Is it about choice-we haven't got one and the nanny state get 's worse year on year,
I've long argued about using skid pans as part of driving test-especially since when we were nippers a lad we knew got killed couple of weeks after he got his licence.
He wore his seatbelt but that didn't stop the fence post spearing him thru' the chest-no comimg back from that one -being able to drive might have helped-he had passed his test with flying colours but passing and driving fast safely are two different things.

I also know people who have been told by Ambulance drivers after collision that due to the way seat broke away from mounts that wearing a seat belt would have caused their pelvis to break.
Also I don't like the idea of fire in an accident-I want to be out as quick as poss-not fumbling for a plug to release me.
Now I'm sure people have many,many cases where they can quote that wearing a s/belt saved/helped them.Good for them.
But as per title I do feel it's a bit of a liberty to say you must wear one.
I try not unless I see a doughnut muncher in the vicinity

[redline]

[I've long argued about using skid pans as part of driving test-:

totally agree , I was taught to drive in 1976 by a police driving instructor at Hendon police college ( I knew my past would catch up with me one day )

I spent three days on the skid pan in a specially converted rover SD1 3.5 v8 and what I learnt has saved me on numerous occaisions ( except when the dickhead in the seat pulled out on me )
I feel the driving test do's not cover enough possible eventualities , some of these issues have been covered with the new pass plus course which my daughter is doing now .

how anyone expects a new driver to cope with ice on the road or a skid
( however its caused ) I don't know ,

skills like reading the road AHEAD of the car in front of you,defensive driving ,cadence breaking , handbrake turns ,and double declutching seem to be totally lost arts these days except for those who learn some form of motor sport .
In 30 years of driving I have never had an accident which was down to my driver error or in which I or my passengers have been injured and I feel that is mainly due to the advanced driving I was taught many years ago

[petefarrell360]

Agreed, the driving test is only a jumping through hoops exercise, whereby anyone who practices those tested elements enough will pass. I know people that quite frankly have no driving skills, they get from A to B in a uncontrolled, and uneducated way. They think they can control a car, but panic in any situations that are new and different or out of their control, such as a skid and make it worse.

A skid pan is something I always wanted to try, and still might if I got chance in a RWD car.

I deliberately went out in the ice to a place I knew was a safe and controlled environment on private land to learn how to control a skid on ice. I spent a couple of hours on a few occassions learning just how much of which elements were required for each situation, enough that I was confident I wouldn't panic in a skid situation and would be able to control my car better than before.

It has saved me on a couple of occassions, once where someone pulled out infront of me on ice, still going slowly, but in taking an avoiding action, the back end wanted to follow on round, yet instead of stamping on the brakes and lifting off, I managed to straighten it up, avoid it and had time to hurl abuse at the fool!

With regards to certain seat belt rules, I feel the important issue is to do with children and that from an early age they need to be taught the dangers involved in travel, and to use a seatbelt. I've witnessed a car load of children being driven poorly by a young lady, and none of them were wearing seatbelts. One was clambering over the parcelshelf, while the other two were literally dancing on the seats. That's just irresponsible. She was clearly distracted by them and I'd hate to think where they'd have ended up in an accident. By law it was her responsibilty to make sure they were all wearing seatbelts, as they weren't old enough to be held responsible by law, and if they don't know any better how could they?

If an adult feels they don't want to wear a seatbelt for whatever reason, then let them, if it isn't going to cause anyone else any harm. I can see what you're saying about the Nanny State etc, but it is there for you're own protection, or that's the theory.

I agree that driver education is the key. There are too many people who've either passed tests so long ago, they've developed bad habits and drive how they want, or the people who have far too much to learn and haven't developed many important skills for driving safely.

Personally, having been in a car accident, I'm mighty glad I was wearing a seatbelt, as I reckon my head would have been well and truly though the window, yes the belt hurt, but the bruises soon healed!

Pete

[jtbo]

Without a seatbelt I would not be writing this, it has saved my life more than once, is a good thing and I can't drive car without using it.

Racing harness is something I prefer, though, so comfortable feeling as you can't move or even breath well, but at least you are not flying out from car or hit any solid objects with insane velocity that causes your brain to be ping pong ball inside your head for a while making some serious damage...

[Nick C]

Harnesses definately make you feel safer, it's a psychological thing like having a rollcage...

The biggest accident I've been in was on a rally, the car rolled through a hedge. I had my harness done up properly, and didn't move. The driver was wearing his looser, and hit his head on the roof of the car, luckily not hard enough to do any damage.

I would definately agree that education is the key however, if people were taught to drive properly instead of being taught to pass the test, there would be a lot less accidents.

[redline]

belting up in the back and not leaving items on the parcel shelf or loose on the back seat is one of my big no no's
I think fifth gear or some such program had a thing about this once ,

anything unrestrained in the back becomes a projectile upon sudden brakeing or frontal impact .

I have physically witnessed a man who had been decapitated by an object flying forward from the parcel shelf after a high speed front ender ( ok most cars have head restraints now which would have softened the impact ) but on checking the bits of the guy that were still safely belted in the car seat it soon became clear that if he had kept his head ( no pun intended ) he would not only have survived but would have walked away from the crash !!!

I have also been at an accident where an unrestrained 4 year old flew between the front seats and out of the front windscreen on impact, the child died and the belted up driver received a broken collar bone from the child hitting him on the way through.

I think most english members will have seen the tv advert ( it was called julie )where an unrestrained youth in the back of the car is thrown forward and headbutts his mum who is driving the car and believe it or not kills her

[Ronnie]

The fact that seat belt use reduces traumatic injury in road traffic collisions is indesputable. There will always be rare occassions when a seatbelt may lead to increased injury or even death, but these instances are rare compared to the many lives which they have saved. John Stapp proved this dramatically back in the 50's when he strapped himself to a rocket sled at Edwards Air Force base and survived a 46 G deceleration - only because he was properly restrained.

I agree that advanced driving skills, practice on skid pans etc will undoubtably reduce accidents, and severity of injuries, but you can't account for everything. I've looked after kids a number of times who were involved in road traffic accidents where their vehicle had been hit head on by another car on the wrong side of the road, and I lost at least one of these. You can't anticipate that - every corner you drive around there could be someone speeding towards you on the wrong side of the road, there could be a rock fall, a 12 pointer stag, a criminal being chased by the police or someone who's just lost concentration. All the training in the world wont save you. A seat belt might.

Going back to kids, it enrages me when I see them unrestrined in cars. They are not responsible enough to make the choice to wear them or not, therefore it's their parents responsibility to keep them safe. When I see them I want to stop and tell the driver what I've seen. Describe the mechanics of head injuries, the reality of what happens when a child's brain herniates throught the bottom of their skull and how if feels to deal with the grieving parents when you turn of the life support. I never do though, I just grit my teeth and keep on driving.

So - if seatbelts save lives, should you have to wear one? I think the answer to this is yes. There is a cost to society if you are killed or injured. The grief of your loved ones, the expenditure of time resources and money by a public health service to try to save your life, and the rehabilitation and social support often required if they succeed.