V6 Man wrote:At least here in the Uk E10 will be restricted to 95oct fuel only, those of us (pretty much all to be honest!!) who can't run E10 will at least be able to use 98RON fuel which will be limited to 5% max ethanol by law. The downside of course is that 98RON costs a lot more.

But what to do when that 5% of 98E5 is too much? I tell it is conspiracy to get old cars off the roads so they can sell more?

edit: E10
http://www.greenpeace.de/themen/landwir ... er_umwelt/
http://www.greenpeace.de/themen/verkehr ... _gestoppt/

E10 is the most controversial fuel issue in Germany since they introduced unleaded. The politicians want it, and nobody else does. Motorists, fuel companies, motor manufacturers, environmentalists - all say "no". Luckily, most motorists are boycotting the stuff, but at 10c difference to 98 octane "super plus" it will only be a matter of time before the acceptance increases.

V6 Man wrote:At least here in the Uk E10 will be restricted to 95oct fuel only, those of us (pretty much all to be honest!!) who can't run E10 will at least be able to use 98RON fuel which will be limited to 5% max ethanol by law. The downside of course is that 98RON costs a lot more.

That's what the situation is here too. The oil companies have recently put regular 95 octane E5 back on sale, but at the same price as 98 octane E5. Argh!

According to Volvo though, every Volvo car since 1976 can run on E10. Where that leaves a Volvo 66, or even a Volvo 340 with a non-unleaded head which needs 98 E5 plus additive is anyone's guess ...

Tom

And of course Volvo or any other car maker is not using issue to boost their new car sales by trying to get older models off the road?

"Transmission oil does not need to be replaced" that is what every car maker says, but in reality to keep car in good condition it is needed to replace every few years.

Even Citroen C5 had bit of this, automatic AL4 transmission does need change of oil quite short intervals, if not changed valves inside of it will get stuck, but oil change is not in service program, after 200 000km transmission is beyond repairing, well you can repair but it costs same as a used C5.

It is controlling life time of product.

Here's what Volvo says about E10:
http://www.dat.de/e10liste/e10vertraeglichkeit.pdf

Every petrol car since 1976 assuming the service intervals have been kept, excepting S40/V40 with a GDI engine from 1998-2004.

I'll stick to E5 for as long as I can though ...

Cheers

Tom

I'd heard something about this E10 stuff, was going to ask on here about it. Nothing good comes from all this meddling about with fuels. (Lead excepted maybe, although for the number of cars on the road that actually need it now I'd not have too much problem using it myself if I had to)

I'm really not against alternative fuel and such, but I think they should of made some sort of control where that ethanol is coming from and what will be total impacts of it be, only ethanol from waste sources should be allowed, imo.

I did read once really long document from how Brazil moved to E85 or whatever they use these days, engines busting themselves without reason in first year of use etc. VW did a lot of work to develope coating that would prevent problems, but when that coating wears off, there are again more problems.

So it is clear that it is fuel for only those vehicles used for basic transportation and which are wrecked at intervals that suit for car makers and stealerships.

Maybe they just should think tank bit more.

There is also full synthetic petrol, which has no issues like these, they should start making that at large volumes, then there would not be price issue and it would burn a lot cleaner than any of current fuels, why it is not done so is beyond my understanding.

E10 is the only additive to regular fuel where nothing of the engine has to be redone, for models that accept it it's just a matter of filling it up and you're done.

for E85, you need a different ignition system as timing and ignition curve is completely different. E85 is a proper racing fuel for the road and high quality but only with the right knowhow for the engine to properly use it. it's quite strange that you don't hear the negative stories about the E10 for the E85, maybe in higher concentration the Ethanol doesn't harm the aluminium of the manifolds/cyl. head etc.

about the older volvo's, espescially with renault engine.. they don't cope with E10. check out the Renault section of the page.
redblocks should be fine if you replace all fuel hoses from front to back but i personally wouldn't bother to use E10

volvodspec wrote:E10 is the only additive to regular fuel where nothing of the engine has to be redone, for models that accept it it's just a matter of filling it up and you're done.

for E85, you need a different ignition system as timing and ignition curve is completely different. E85 is a proper racing fuel for the road and high quality but only with the right knowhow for the engine to properly use it. it's quite strange that you don't hear the negative stories about the E10 for the E85, maybe in higher concentration the Ethanol doesn't harm the aluminium of the manifolds/cyl. head etc.

about the older volvo's, espescially with renault engine.. they don't cope with E10. check out the Renault section of the page.
redblocks should be fine if you replace all fuel hoses from front to back but i personally wouldn't bother to use E10

E85 for certain will do damage and a lot faster.

Biofuels are causing one big issue that has not got much headlines, food prices are skyrocketing at the moment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13086979

Yeah, IMHO that's the worst thing about these biofuels. They may reduce dependence on OPEC countries, but at the price of taking food away from hungry people. Not nice ...

Tom

The money the goveremnt take for our feul should be invested in sorting the problem. The sad thing about this for me is that our world has serious issue and all people can do is argue about it, theres no arguement, we need to find an alternative to fossil feuls. They came up with nuclear bomb in only a few years, got the great names in science on to it. Why don't we do that with the problem we have now. Oh wait, its not war, thats why :/

I don't get upset about it anymore because the UK is driven by shareholders, oil being one of the most dependant industries. Oil will never stop being a priority until it runs out. Moan all you like, the suits in the city will never change anything.

I'd be happy to pay what i am paying if i knew the goverments were actually trying to find an alternative

What ever happened to cars that run on Hydro-draggons?

They were much hyped a few year ago.

"They run on the most abundant element in the Universe, their only emmision is water, and theyre ready for production........"

Then it all went very quiet...

Well, oil and coal is used to produce hyrdogen from water. If we could generate more electcrity from renewables, to then make hydrogen then it would be great. Water is also a greenhouse gas however. You can run a IC engine off hyrdogen yes? Dont people convert them?