Uprated clutch to fit 1.4 340? (GTT conversion) Info...

[classicswede]

Steve,

you are going into new territory I cant give all to much advise on what will or wont fit.

I have never considered the GTT conversion as I have a personal dislike for the engine.

As to what is or is not going to your going to have to drop the lump in and find out. As with most engine conversions the tape gives you a good idea but you cant beat dropping the lump in and see what gets in the way.
If the manifold does become an issue I can get manfolds made for the right money.

From what I remember of the GTT (been a long time since I last saw one) there is not realy any room for a tubular manifold I would expect tuners just to make the best of the log. For normal use a log manifold is going to be fine - anyway why spend when you dont have to.

Your best bet is going to be to do a dry trial fit as such. Pull the original 1.4 out and drop the GTT into position. From there you can work out what is going to be needed.

Unfortunatly its back to basics

[Stavros]

there are tubular manifolds around for GTTs, but no real need till mega power, so arnt big sellers.
regarding twin scroll turbos, well unless your running T4 framed turbos or bigger, your unlikely to find a divided exhaust housing anyhow, and summat tells me nobody will be putting one of them on a 1.4!

and im totally chilled, just gets a bit frustrating when people keep repeating the same things over and over when i know most of them to be untrue or at least an exaduration.

i got a huge dislike for unsure rumour as it gets spread as gospel and stops people doing new things, i see it all the time, and it literally holds tuning scenes back years, and im saying that with no exaduration (bigwig knows all about the RS500 spec situation in the cossie world up until a few years ago for example).

granted, advice, however unsure, is usually helpful, but when ive already stated i know thru experience that things are or arnt a problem, it gets a bit annoying when people who have never actualy tried tell me otherwise, lol.

once i get hold of a 1.4 ill quickly bolt the manifolds to the original block/head (thats all identical in outer appearance) and take a few pics to show clearance issues etc.

well, actually...

[foggyjames]

ATP now have a twin scroll T3 exhaust housing out (pimp!), but you're quite right, it's a big turbo thing primarily. I was going to say as much, but then it occured to me that I don't know much about smaller turbos, so I best not open my big mouth

The opposite danger to unfounded rumour is people blindly going ahead who aren't really in a position to know whether or not what they're doing is a good idea or not. From some time spent on a local cruise forum last year, I was left in no doubt at all that the reputation for randomly blowing up that GTTs and RS Turbos have is due to people who have no idea what they're doing trying stupid stuff and blowing them up.

For example, the accepted advice on one of the Volvo forums is that MBCs are dangerous simply because one of the moderators dialled in 25psi of boost on a stock ECU, and didn't have the self restraint to lift off when he ran into heavy detonation. Both extremes are, of course, not good for the scene.

I'd love you to post the pictures...and I'd love it even more if I'm wrong and you CAN bolt the stock manifold and turbo right up. That would make everyone's life easier, and we might well see more fast 300s, which is the object of the exercise

cheers

James

[big_wig_074]

if he,or we came across as a touch aggressive i apologise,its just that some people will just get an idea in their head (dump valves are necessary on all turbos and make the car quicker,high comp is better than low comp,theres no way of better tuning a cossie than a 8injector setup like rs500s etc......)and run with it,never questioning it and if anyone even tries to suggest otherwise,even if they have bulletproof evidence signed and sealed by jesus himself,they are still wrong because they heard it on the net! i think both myself and steve just want to get the facts rather than website "facts" through peoples inability to look at a problem in a different light or do something other than what a tuner tells them because then the tuner wouldnt make his money (very true in a lot of jap tuning ATM). we are very approachable people,have a fair bit of experience of turbo cars and other fast motors between us ,but we just dont know the specifics of the volvo bits and pieces,we will bloody learn though after many hours no doubt underneath both cars getting a decent setup
once again,sorry if i or we have offended,not whats intended.
so.....clutches?lol! think best solution,buy a std clutch setup for both and see if we can mix and match it up mate,then lets get the engines built!


one for the volvo types,what kind of top end do these motors have and at what revs?on both 4 and 5 speed boxes,as when i drive on down to the ring next year id like to not be deaf from 130mph at 7000rpm or something!

[petefarrell360]

The GLT diff means at 70 mph it's just a tad above 3000rpm, and at 90 mph it's just over 4000rpm from memory.

I'm glad everything has been cleared up, but I am glad people are thinking outside the box. A simple, no that never works, can't be done, or don't bother is something that also gets to me, in as much as then I'll make it my mission to find out why, or go one better and actually prove it can be done! Certain removal processes or instructions say do this and that, why, I see no need to remove half the car........ so if there is a simple way, I'd prefer it. Anyway, if it means the 300 is going to have another different development it is all good.

You'll find V3M is a friendly place, where there is a lot of good information, it's quite rare that you have to cut through the BS, as someone will either correct it, dismiss it or sort out the confusion. A lot of people who post anything remotely technical do know what they are on about, by either having been there and done it, or generally know their stuff. I do like the fact that someone is willing to explore another route. So...... good luck and keep us posted.

Pete

[Chris_C]

GLT is on a 3.64 final drive, where as the 1.4 5speed (not sure from when, it's posted up along with all the other final drive ratios in a thread on here, but all the later ones) is 3.8something, 3.85 I think. So yeah, at 130 you'll be revving quite a bit

360 GLE's have a 3.36 which might be a decent compromise, but I as you prolly know by now, if you get a 360 as your start base, the torque tube is different to the 40's prop shaft, so the engine wont just bolt up. Can just swap the diffs though. Then again, if you want it for drifting, the 3.36 might not be that useful to you

[Stavros]

So the 1.4 4speeds DO have a lower geared diff after all, like i was saying they prob did, even though on this thread earlier i was told the opposite...
Suprise suprise, lol
Whats next? My guess the manifold thing

Id much prefer crazy low gearing myself, i dont care if the car tops out at 110mph.

[SteveP]

81- 4 speed - 3.64
5 speed - 3.82

Take them as you will, they might just be rumour again I'd say you'd find it harder to find a 4 speed car than a 5 speed now.

[Chris_C]

I think the main problem is a lot people get the terminology wrong with final drives, with low ratio and low gearing meaning the exact opposite things. Thats why I posted the actual ratios, and if people don't understand those then it's due to basic lack of knowledge and not incorrect terminology.

[Stavros]

Sorry! I read it wrong! I thought you wrote that the 1.4 FOUR speed had the lowest gearing ie the 3.8 something!

Doh Feel like a plonker now, just quickly read it, but too fast

That sucks tho, wanted 5speeds but lower gearing, looks like that wont really happen.

Apart from just running 13s and 175/50s!

[Chris_C]

Thats alright mate, we all do it, its too easy to see what you want too on forums.

As I said before, the diff isn't that bad to swap if you did want less take off accel (not sure what the gtt engine is like low down but I guess the same as the 1.4 300 engine as the turbo won't have kicked in unless you just plan on dumping the clutch every time) but I'd have though you'd want the extra help on starts. I guess whenever you want a good start you'd be revving anyway.

[Frits]

Hi, I am the guy that is fitting the GTT engine in a 343.

Remember that i have a left hand drive car. (like said)

The original exhaust manifold won't fit, i tried. If you have a big hammer, you can make it fit (slam the firewall a bit inside.....) Remember that i also don't have money at all... (19 years old and a study so..) I deside to make a manifold myself. (you can choose youre way)

In my opinion you can't use the renault clutch, the flywheel doesn't fit (the bearing for the prise-as isn't possible) , the plate does'n fit. I use the Sachs sinterplate and the other original volvo parts.

If you want this done, i would say yust begin and see what to change. You can't know everything before you begin.

[classicswede]

On the gearing front,
with the 13" rims normaly used for drifting you will run out of revs before you hit any kind of high speed. The gearing does drop some what when using low profile 13" tyres.

@100mph Vicky's car (with 195/60/14's-that quite a bib r/r) wants a sixth gear.

[foggyjames]

With standard wheel diameter, 100mph is about 5200rpm with the B14 5 speed (3.82). It's 4000rpm with the 3.36 in the later 360 carb cars (always 5 speed). Anyone got a figure for an injection car with the 3.64?

You can mix and match diffs - as soon as I get around to it, I'm going to be creating a 3.82 360 box for my N/A car...I have the parts, but have yet to make time to do the unbolting. I also have a 3.91 rear end, but I've decided that the 3.82 is probably low enough, given the kerb weight and power output. There's a fair list of ratios...I have a factory ratio chart, stating what came in what.

cheers

James

[Stavros]

Me n Greg (bigwig) popped down the scrappy to get some bits for my mondeo runaround (in my 300bhp MR2 turbo runaround ) and took the GTT manifold i had lying around with us to check for sure (as there plenty of 340s down there).

Manifold would go straight on, no probs.
BUT
To actually fit the turbo on the end of it, lol, will need obviously the heater box removing or modding (may as well remove IMO, its not like your removing your heater maxtrix is it!), but the main thing is the 2 water pipes that go to the maxtrix.
These will need either moving totally, or angling 90deg as they leave the bulkhead and re-routing. Not hard of course, rubber hose isnt the hardest thing to work with, lol.

The turbo should fit then, if a little close to the bulkhead (nigh on touching, but shouldnt be an issue as such), but in my opinion youd be better to mount the turbo in the opposite way to on the GTT, as there more room (on RHD cars, on LHD itd not be an issue) to run the downpipe on the other side.
This isnt hard, just means 15mins rotating the housings.

PERSONALLY id nob off that idea and just run a simple link pipe from the end of the manifold to the other side of the engine where the bay is almost bare, and fit it wherever you see fit.

Also checked out the ign ECU, its physically identical to the GTT one, didnt check part numbers, but expect its slightly different as cant see it being able to retard ign under boost, but at least it looks like it will work no probs.
Need to go look at one of my spare GTT boxes to make sure the crank sensor is picking up in same place otherwise i guess itd think the ign timing is different to reality, but im 99% sure itd be in same place.

Looked at front crank pulley too, and TBH its easy modded (ie another pulley welded on the front), so im very tempted to not worry about a turbo and put my spare M45 on it, finally see how long the teflon coated blades last at 17000rpm...

BTW, had a good look at the GTT ex manifold for 1st time in a long while. IMO its a bloody nice design, long smooth bends and a suitable bore, equal length has no real effect on turbo cars, not like general flow has anyhow.
Exactly why the tubular manifolds that are available arnt big sellers...