few questions

A global place for general discussion (Volvo, V3M or non-Volvo related topics).
Please introduce yourself here, your Volvo 300 hobby...
NO technical support, parts requests or car advertisements here
A M R
Posts: 511
Joined: 15 Oct 2006 08:27 pm
Location: south london

Post by A M R »

well bascially its just for the sake of being able to stick twin carbs on, easier to tune and for the noise of it :D

i havent got a clue of how to tune an injection car and i didnt think you were able to modify the maps of stock ecu's anyway?

and how is the carbed version gutless? i read somewhere that it was only something like 10 horse down or so compared to injection?

edit: but of course the car will be modded so would it be better to go for the injection?
User avatar
Chris_C
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9600
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 11:53 pm
Location: South Coast, UK

Post by Chris_C »

Out of the 4 GLE's I know vaguely well, I've driven 2 of them, the main problem is that they weren't set up right to start with. Even now Nicks is a lot better set up, he's not seeing much above 30MPG on a run. Marlons was a lot worse, but the time never got put into sorting it. Have a nose at the stock jet sizes on a GLE, and you notice why theres no power increase at top end.

I've just got to the stage where spending 200 quid on a set of carbs, another 50 on new gaskets, 150 on a manifold, then lots of dyno time to actually set them up is getting to the stage where you can drop an aftermarket ECU and a wideband lambda in... but then I've had that idea in my mind for a while.

Don't let me put you off, twin carbs are pretty cool, Foggy's done it to his GLE, and even though he still hasn't got them tuned (the countless hours of dyno time is missing from the equation...) he's making 140bhp ish. If he got them tuned, then he might get some of his fuel economy back!


I'd love to know overall costs of Andy's megasquirt injection conversion vs Foggys carb convertion, as they are around the same power (give or take... both have different strenghts) and I know which is making better MPG ;)
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast
User avatar
SteveP
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 7943
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 12:45 pm
Location: Coventry, UK

Post by SteveP »

Which makes the better noise though ;)

Also, I'm not convinced them two you've compared are running properly - the Solex carb isn't the most reliable things as time go by, although it's no B172k by any means...

It's not necessarily the jet sizes Chris, the A cam in the GLT is far 'hotter' than the (L?) cam in the GLE. Spend alot of time on the motorway? GLE it is.... I'm not sure the GLT is any better on fuel on short trips either - probably not.

Either way, both the carb 2.0 and injection 2.0 need improvement, as standard they're both crap!
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux
User avatar
Chris_C
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9600
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 11:53 pm
Location: South Coast, UK

Post by Chris_C »

Granted, one wasn't, but the other has had a heck of a lot of work on it, and to be returning 28-30 mpg with that little power? It's not on... More my point is that a lot of carb cars when you buy them now need a bit of work before they run well, and few garages actually know how to tune a carb anymore.

Granted as well with the cam, put the 2 things together (not sure what the ignition map is like either, probably babied to hell as well) and you have a car thats ment for MPG over performance. When most that you'll buy today can't give you MPG...

Yeah, basically, both can be a lot better, go the way thats best for you! And carbs do sound cool ;)
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast
A M R
Posts: 511
Joined: 15 Oct 2006 08:27 pm
Location: south london

Post by A M R »

so can you guys point me in the right direction then?

carbs or injection - for more power and economy im guessing injection right?

but what kind of an ecu can i fit and is it costly? how do i tune it? how much more power will i make?
User avatar
Chris_C
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 9600
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 11:53 pm
Location: South Coast, UK

Post by Chris_C »

It really does depend on what you'd feel most comfortable with, I was only going to learn about injection until my 1.7 carb decided to have issues, now I know a bit about both ;)

I didn't mean to put you off carbs, just trying to show you what you might have to deal with!

Giving a working car:

2.0 carb, would need a manifold, set of good working carbs, and dyno time, and as Foggies proved with a different cam, gives 140+bhp.

2.0 inj, would need aftermarket ecu (megasquirt is good and quite cheap... I've heard rumours of people thinking of putting 740/940 closed loop injection systems on a 300, which would be cheap as you could get all the bits from a scrappy, but its all talk so far, and not been proved) and either a wideband lambda sensor, or more dyno time. Add a cam to that, and you'd be looking 140+ bhp as well.

Injection systems will involve playing around with the electrical side of the car, whereas carbs only need nuts, bolts and things sacrificing to the carb gods to make work (everyone knows carbs are really black magic...)

Do what you feel best with and makes you happy, both will make the same power roughly for the same pennies invested
'89(G) 340 GLE B172k
'03 S60 D5 SE, '91 (J) MX5, 1954 Cyclemaster
Ex:
'89(F) 340 GL F7R (ex B172k) - Fake -> SBKV 300 Runner Up 08, 12; '91(H) 340 GL B14.4E - Kar; '88(F) 360 GLT B200E - Jet -> BKV 300 Runner Up 09; '89(G) 360 GLT B200E - Beast
classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5469
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Post by classicswede »

If you want a twin webber manifold for a 360 I can get them no problems.

The other cheaper option is to fit LPG!! Yes fit LPG.
With the latest gas injection systems we are now fitting they are fully mabable and can be tuned for power or economy.
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image
sven360
Posts: 1856
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 11:36 pm
Location: up shitcreek

Post by sven360 »

classicswede wrote:If you want a twin webber manifold for a 360 I can get them no problems.
.
What about a lynx manifold for single Dcoe for road rallying? :idea:
A M R
Posts: 511
Joined: 15 Oct 2006 08:27 pm
Location: south london

Post by A M R »

okay so the carb it is then - so thats the GLE right? or did they do an early version of the GLT with a carb setup? whats the main differences between GLE and GLT?

i would rather piss about with the mechanical side of things than get involved with electronics, and plus my uncle knows millions of contacts that could possibly help with things.

how much is LPG by the litre now anyway? and if i decided to go to 'the ring', would it be easy to find somewhere to fill up? also i read somewhere on this forum that someone has an LPG conversion and it makes the car backfire a lot right? (not necessarily a bad thing 8) )

cheers guys for all the info.
User avatar
SteveP
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 7943
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 12:45 pm
Location: Coventry, UK

Post by SteveP »

All 360 GLT's - Injection
360GLEi - Injection, but rare and unlikely to find
360 GL/GLS/GLE - Carb
1989 - Volvo 360 GLT
1985 - Volvo 360 GLS
2008 - Volvo S60 SE Lux
classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5469
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Post by classicswede »

sven360 wrote:
classicswede wrote:If you want a twin webber manifold for a 360 I can get them no problems.
.
What about a lynx manifold for single Dcoe for road rallying? :idea:
I will see if I can get one PM me.
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image
classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5469
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Post by classicswede »

A M R wrote:okay so the carb it is then - so thats the GLE right? or did they do an early version of the GLT with a carb setup? whats the main differences between GLE and GLT?

i would rather piss about with the mechanical side of things than get involved with electronics, and plus my uncle knows millions of contacts that could possibly help with things.

how much is LPG by the litre now anyway? and if i decided to go to 'the ring', would it be easy to find somewhere to fill up? also i read somewhere on this forum that someone has an LPG conversion and it makes the car backfire a lot right? (not necessarily a bad thing 8) )

cheers guys for all the info.
You can retro fit carbs to a GLT so dont be to fussed when you buy one.

LPG is normaly between 30 - 45p a litre depending where you buy it form. most petrol stations now also sell LPG.

As to backfiring on LPG this is caused by either poor spark or lean running. Vickys car has only ever backfire a small number of times - once when I put the leads on wrong and a couple of times after pressure washing the engine. Her car runs on LPG only as the carb was knackered.
Multi point gas injection does not backfire.

LPG is very good if you want to fit a flamer kit.
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image
A M R
Posts: 511
Joined: 15 Oct 2006 08:27 pm
Location: south london

Post by A M R »

haha flamer kit...actually that would be pretty cool coming out of a volvo...

hmm nah i think i'll just stick with the petrol as it costs a few hundred quid for the conversion and finding a place that sells lpg is pretty tricky anyway.

classicswede - cant you get manifolds to bolt on twin dellortos? is dellorto or webber best for this car and what size carbs would you reccommend?

oh yeh almost forgot - 1 month exactly til my driving test!!!!

cheers guys.
classicswede
*** V3M DONOR ***
Posts: 5469
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 06:52 pm
Location: Anglesey North Wales
Contact:

Post by classicswede »

Webber and dellorto are the same fixing.

Webber gives slightly higher horsepower and dellorto's give better MPG with only little loss in power.
Dai

Please email me directly on dai@classicswede.co.uk

http://www.classicswede.com

phone/text 07824887160

Web shop http://www.classicswede.co.uk/

Image
A M R
Posts: 511
Joined: 15 Oct 2006 08:27 pm
Location: south london

Post by A M R »

so what size carbs would you reccommend and where can i get them from at a good price?
Post Reply