Service nightmare

Post by **ebdl** » 04 Jan 2006 06:30 pm

I get Wednesday afternoons off for sport. So I decided to tackle my 340's service. (Mixed sporting puns. Marvellous.)

Any way. Before I began my service I started the car. The idling had been getting progressively worse before I went home for Christmas and when I started it up again today I couldn't get it to idle at all. It keeps running with my foot on the throttle, but sounds rather like a helicopter (I wonder if it's missing a cylinder).

I then changed the following (it's a 1983 (Mk.II) 340 GL auto):

-Air filter ( & tightened up carb bolts - and the three screws that secure the top of the carb to the main carb body, these were very loose). I also managed to snap off the top of the bolt that secures the lid of the air filter housing to the body.

-Condenser, points, rotor arm and distributor cap. The only problem was that I couldn't use the new contact point as it was the wrong shape and no matter how I moved it, it wouldn't line up with the breaker arm (which was identical to the old one). I don't think Volvo do these parts any more, so I have to make do with what I can find at motor factors. GSF and Eurocarparts don't do them either.

-Plugs and leads. I gapped the plugs at 0.8mm.

I need some ramps before I can change the oil.

I started the car and it idled exactly as it did before. I tried to drive it after warming it up a bit, but I can't get it into gear very successfully and then it stalls very easily. When I try to engage D or R I get a noise that is exactly the same as if you tried to put a manual into gear without depressing the clutch.

At one point, I thought I heard a noise like some escaping air. Is this likely to indicate some sort of a vacuum problem?

My questions

Where can I get a proper set of points, rotor and cap for the Ducelier (clip-on) distributor cap?

Where do I start on the vacuum system for the transmission?

Can you think of anything I've done wrong or missed?

Thanks for your help

Ed

Post by **petefarrell360** » 04 Jan 2006 06:59 pm

Right, well, where do I start!? I'm no expert on the 1.4 or the variomatic system, but I have got a 340 Variomatic that I am starting to learn about as I intend to put it back on the road asap.

I know that Halfords do the rotor arm and distributor cap, but from other peoples experiences they don't last, but as a cheap last resort to see if it helps, might be worth a try.

The engaging problems of the transmission could be down to the idling problems, as above a certain rpm the clutch engages to drive the belts, but the air leak from the vario transmission could be adding to your problems. Have you checked the pipework is all ok near the coolant tank for the vario gear? Perished pipes, or one might have come off. Failing that I'm out on ideas. Antiekeradio is a wealth of knowledge on the vario system in particular and wjp01908 (but he hasn't been around lately, hope he's ok) and Pettaw (Andy) is the man in the know about the 1.4 engine.

Pete

Post by **Batteries included** » 04 Jan 2006 07:21 pm

Sounds like a vacuum leak. That would certainly affect carburation in a big way. If you can't engage gear it may be that the clutch vacuum servo cannot operate because of a leak and this means that the prop shaft is revolving when you try to engage gear. Though if idle is very slow, I would expect the clutch to be disengaged anyway. See if the prop shaft is rotating at idle before you select the gear.

I'm sure that antiekradio will be able to offer an immediate solution.

Good luck with it!

Post by **petefarrell360** » 05 Jan 2006 12:29 am

I meant to add earlier, since I've acquired a variomatic, it is quite noticable how poor the Haynes book of lies and even the Autodata book are at dealing with the sytem. They can't be bothered to go into detail and do it properly, sometimes saving some space by showing one of the two sytems, ie early version, with parts in slightly different places to the later models. So I've not found it much use yet. The walking, talking, typing sort of books of knowledge seem to be far more useful for the variomatic systems!

Pete

Website · Post by **antiekeradio** » 05 Jan 2006 12:52 am

Sounds like a vacuum leak. That would certainly affect carburation in a big way

agreed. investigate in that direction.

ok, some quick remarks will have to do for now;

- 0.8 mm is too much. put them at 0.55-0.6.
- the sound of air escaping could well be the clutch disengagement mechanism, working correctly

- to get to the vacuum leak, check hoses and gaskets.
since the top part of your carb has already come loose once, it's on the way out unless you take serious measures to fit is solid (tightening doesn't help in the long term...)

Greetings Wouter

Post by **ebdl** » 05 Jan 2006 01:29 am

Thanks for the help so far.

I'll have a poke around at the weekend.

Out of interest, would it be complicated to change to a later type of distributor to make getting spare parts a bit easier? Or is there an electronic ignition system I could think about (e.g. 123, Lumenition)?

thanks, Ed

Post by **foggyjames** » 05 Jan 2006 02:22 am

Fiver says it's the carb...they're famous for it, as I'm rapidly finding out with Nessy. Fantastic engine when it behaves though!

Renix on the later cars is fully electronic (ie: triggering and it's mapped - all it's missing to be like a modern ignition ECU is a knock sensor!). I have no idea if the early cars have the flywheel machined with the trigger marks, but I guess not. If I had an early engine, I'd be very tempted (at some point) to drop in a late engine, if nothing else to ease parts availability, and to get Renix. May I henceforth be stoned by the purists...

cheers

James

Website · Post by **antiekeradio** » 05 Jan 2006 10:09 am

I have no idea if the early cars have the flywheel machined with the trigger marks, but I guess not.

smooooth as a babybutt

Post by **pettaw** » 05 Jan 2006 10:18 am

Are you sure that Volvo don't do service items like points anymore? The older cars aren't listed on the computer systems, but they should still have the old microfiches and should at least be able to get you a part number and whether its available or not.

Re the symptoms, I don't know how the CVT system all works vacuum hoses wise, but it sounds like a vacuum leak but it could also be a ignition issue, particularly if the points are old or the dizzy cap is worn out.

Post by **Fuse** » 05 Jan 2006 10:30 am

It's kinda weird when people say that they can't get any parts etc... Is it country dependant or what because in here if you go to the dealer you can get almost every part for 300-series. Parts for Amazons are available too etc... Of course usually more rare parts have to be ordered from factory/stock in Sweden and it takes few days but parts are available.

Website · Post by **antiekeradio** » 05 Jan 2006 10:41 am

indeed, breaker points are service parts I cannot imagine not te be on stock.

you could just as well go to a renault dealership, you can ask for breaker point from almost any seventies model exept the 16 and higher.
oh and change the capacitor as well!

Post by **shimon340** » 05 Jan 2006 05:15 pm

you could get the contact points from the daf club in holland but Im surprised volvo doesnt have them... volvo recently set up a comapny to ensure parts are still available... Genuine Classic parts... in sweden..

Wouter... the points and condensor are the same as any renault 1.4??

cheers

shimon

Post by **ebdl** » 05 Jan 2006 06:03 pm

I've spoken to two local Volvo dealers (Stratstone Plymouth and Kastner Exeter). The story is the same from both: they can get the distributor cap (£10.50) but not the rotor arm or points. These parts aren't listed any more as Volvo parts. Does anyone know if Ducellier actually exists as a company any more? I can't find them on the web.

Antiekeradio - what is this capacitor you mention? Not the same as the condensor I presume.

I talked to my very helpful local Renault dealer who can still get all of the parts for clip-on type Ducellier distributors. Unfortunately you have to pay in advance and items are non-refundable, but they have diagrams so I'll go and have a look to see if these are the right ones. Looks like I might have to shop for my Volvo at Renault from now on...

Post by **ebdl** » 05 Jan 2006 07:36 pm

...no luck at Renault

Let's play "Name that Distributor":

Here's the cap, marked with S.E.V. MARCHAL and BREVETE:

It attaches to this base in the car, marked 5252 and R280D60:

The centre HT lead connects to this (the coil?) at the front of the engine bay, clearly marked DUCELLIER:

This was the rotor arm I took out:

These are the points - the artists impression is sort of what the one I should have looks like (from memory) - the 2-pronged bit should be flat and not bent up at 90 degrees; I was supplied with this one and it doesn't fit. The springy arm is the one I took out - the new one was identical:

This is the condenser:

Looking at the pictures in Haynes, the interior of my distributor is definitely like the Ducellier pictured at the bottom of page 4.4

If it was an S.E.V. distributor, then it wouldn't have normal contact breaker points, but a cassette that mine clearly doesn't have. It seems to me that sometime in the past, someone has bunged an SEV cap (and rotor?) onto a Ducellier distributor. Judging by the way it runs, this doesn't seem to be terribly effective. So I still need to find the right points, cap and rotor

Website · Post by **antiekeradio** » 05 Jan 2006 11:53 pm

your pictures are dead, mate...

Wouter... the points and condensor are the same as any renault 1.4??

points; yes! (same as any with duccelier ignition, 1100, 1300, etc)
condensor should be 0,27 µF (old version with ducellier 1203 should have a 0,22 µF)

Antiekeradio - what is this capacitor you mention? Not the same as the condensor I presume.

condensor = capacitor!! my fault..in dutch there is only 1 word for it..