blue smoke start up - mac have you info please!

Post by **shimon340** » 16 Apr 2007 10:22 pm

hi guys!

sorry for not being around much. In process of sorting a house, things are nicely quieter now.

My gold 340 47,000 miles has been in storage for 4 months. Unfortunately I didnt get a chance to start it up from time to time. I know thats not good.

I tried to start it about 3 weeks ago, it turned over on the starter but the bettery was running low. upon trying to restart it just made a loud clunking sound and repeated this when move the ignition off then back to on. Thinking the starter was jammed as it hadnt had enough current to move forward and connect fast enough - thought it had jammed in the flywheel. Jump starting simply repeated the clunk noise and switched all vehicle electrics off even when released from sprung position 3 to 2. reset by switching completely on and off. Engine could not be turned at all by moving the crank pulley - even with a socket suggesting a seized engine (unlikely - Ive started engine stored for longer ) or a starter jammed in the flywheel

I waited for a free sunday to pull the starter. before doing so, I tried a good recharged battery.

turning the ignition and "clunk". then off and on and the engine turned!! took a while to start as the fuel lines were empty but eventually it did.

exhaust was quite blue and smokey. engine had what seemed like a little piston slap (at what reg did volvo introduce dual metal pistons which eliminated piston slap on the B14?? ). revving slightly just produced more blue smoke.

pulling the plugs shows cylinder 1 (near flywheel) was textbook beige.

cylinder 2 had white deposits on the plug top (pic to follow)

cylinder 3 had oil fouled plug

cylinder 4 was slightly sooty.

the plugs were volvo own but looked rather tired.

I dont think the oil is from the piston rings given the mileage (47,000) and that the engine was so good when in use.

The piston slap was concerned though.

A valve stem seal is possible but from reading B14 green book it sounds like only the B14.0 had stem seals - at least the manual says "if applicable" for valve seals and comments that only the B14.0 can be machined to fit stem seals - unless this was a way to fit later seals to the first engine type?

can only confirm if all the B14 have stem seals. There must be some sort of valve stem seal? any info guys??

any other ideas whats going on with the oil from the exhaust? I dont mind pulling the head of the engine etc but only if really needed.

I havent started it since as Im not sure to run it to burn off the oil or am I risking more damage.

I'll need to check oil levels before and after starting too to get an idea of consumption....

look forward to hearing from you

S

Post by **classicswede** » 17 Apr 2007 01:11 pm

it could just be oil passing the guides. Has it cleared at all afterwards?

It also possible the rings have stuck on the pistons. A bit derv down the bores and a long soak will normaly sort that.

Post by **pettaw** » 17 Apr 2007 07:18 pm

I believe he only wants Mac to answer this one

Post by **redline** » 17 Apr 2007 07:30 pm

He might have a bit of a wait for Mac as he is only at home now and then at the moment

Post by **foggyjames** » 17 Apr 2007 07:48 pm

I don't see that further running will cause much damage. It might be worth - if at all possible - taking it for a bit of a run to see if it clears up.

Having said that, Nessy's "new" engine ran AOK after sitting for 18+months...out of a car

cheers

James

Post by **V6 Man** » 17 Apr 2007 08:19 pm

Like Dai says it may be the rings sticking to the bores. It is possible that some water ingress has occurred and that has caused rusting of the rings.

If it is sticking rings it'll either sort itself out as the rust wears off with use, or the rings have already had it and it'll smoke forever.

Only one way to find out bar pulling the head, and that's to use it.

Post by **mac** » 19 Apr 2007 08:11 pm

evnin' all, still not about much (actually down in Essex at the mo) but the boss is watching something called eastenders on the box and I'm hiding with a laptop.

1. From my rapidly failing memory "Duotherm" pistons came during the 87 model year. (piston slap very loud before and slightly quieter afterwards).
On my '84' I could estimate the outside air temp by how long it took the pistons to shut up from cold. The Duotherms had a steel insert in the skirt to align the expansion rate with that of the bore during warm up.

2. Just possible rings nipped up whilst car was standing - but in 4 months I doubt it. From your description far more likely that low batt. volts allowed pinion to jam in flywheel - this would cause much higher resistance when trying to turn engine over by pulley. Doubt very much that engine actually seized. Also doubt that anything much wrong with rings (unless one or two sets did nip up and then break when engine started)

3. At stated mileage there shouldn't be much wrong with guides either but stem seals may have gone hard (age rather than mls.) Oil probably collected on piston crown during lay up and burnt off on starting (having seeped past the stem seals and down the guides).

4. I go along with all other comments. Use car for a bit and it will either improve or not. If the problem goes away - whoopee, if not then look to rings (compression and cylinder leakage tests) and if no probs there fit new stem seals (yes you can do it without removing the head - and it saves disturbing the pesky wet liners).

5. As Mick says - still only at 'home' (where's home these days) now and then, but getting there (probate now granted, inheritance tax now paid, ouch! ouch! ouch! , estate slowly being sorted. Still have a Citroen Xsara on the fleet (funny little thing really). Generally we feel like professional mourners at the mo - apart from loosing Debs dad we've had three other funerals since January (including a trip to Poole in Dorset the week before last.)
900 is starting to need some TLC, just managed to squeeze a service and cam belt change in on Debs 400 (damn thing still looks like it came out of the showroom yesterday).

Hope to be "more back" soon.

Regards to everyone - Mac.

Post by **foggyjames** » 19 Apr 2007 09:38 pm

Good to hear from you Mac. My gasket sets arrived AOK - many thanks!

cheers

James

Post by **shimon340** » 14 May 2007 01:01 am

hi guys!!

Sorry for not being around much recently. Sharon and I finally

:) have somewhere to live and we start renting next week so now things are quieter I can get online after work! Hooray.

thanks to everyone for their answers to this problem. Andy/Pettaw I wasnt just looking for Mac to answer!! I just thought he might know about the Duo pistons and the valve stems. No offence meant to other people if they too knew the answers.

Im going to complete a compression test next weekend as that should indicate pistons rings or not. I am hoping its a simple stem seal leakage that has built up during the time the engine wasnt used. Im interested in the valve stem replacments without pulling the head - I know its possible on other cars so I am interested in how its done on the 1.4 The engine was piston slapping whilst it was burning oil - not sure how much of that was the usual slapping sound.

I'll keep you updated with any further info once Ive had some more time on the car.

Rupert/Dai - do you mean the rings have got stuck in the "compressed" position in the pistons and thats how the oil is getting past?

PS I've been doing some work on michols 340 recently (the one that wouldnt rev and just gargled and cut out). Dai recently completed some welding work and an MOT for him (thank you!!) Thus far... its finally running well!!!

look forward to hearing from you!

Shimon