360 GLE Carb

Post by **Jason B** » 23 Jun 2007 05:47 pm

Hi,

I'm just undertaking a "rally project" on a 360 gle which already has a K cam fitted and am wondering what is the best route for getting most power out of the engine (for the money). The main catch is that national b rally spec states only two chokes are allowed i.e. one twin choke carb or two single choke carbs. Any thoughts / recommendations (not limited carbs, any engine tuning tips gratefully accepted)

Cheers

Jason

Post by **foggyjames** » 24 Jun 2007 12:06 am

If I remember correctly, the car actually has an 'A' cam fitted, as it was a head from an injection model. The A is still a fairly meaty cam

A carb upgrade is an excellent idea. The standard 34/34 carb severely chokes the B200. Try a Weber DGAV 38 or similar - but get ready to spend some time having it tuned properly. Chris was yabbering the other week about a guy who is a carb Ninja in Soton.

cheers

James

Post by **Jason B** » 24 Jun 2007 01:40 pm

so, whats the advantage of this carb over others if my intention is to try and power tune for best acceleration? (have to find out if the cam is K or A but will porbably stick a K in if its not already)

Post by **Nikdev** » 24 Jun 2007 03:14 pm

If you get into the modifications on the engine they have in the Volvo original cup then you get a good idea of what to do.
They uses original fuel injection. For the head they use the H-kam. ported 531 or 405 head. maximum over bore, balanced engine, they have approx 160-170hp. That is from only original parts

But on the b200, you can also use the 530 head thats preferable but the 160 and the 398 head is pretty god too, but still the bigger heads 531/405 are the best. Porting and compression increasing and with the H kam and some good carbs will give some nice figures.

I am going to use injection on mine because of originality and simplicity. Found a good engine for sale today a b23e with ported 398 head and vx003 kam, with the 4-2-1 manifold i am buying from the group buy in the Swedish 300power club, i hope i will have enough power to have fun

Post by **foggyjames** » 24 Jun 2007 04:15 pm

Thing is...a balanced B230 with all those parts would make over 200bhp if the original fuel injection setup were ditched in favour of a better flowing intake arrangement.

Jason - you need to identify the 'bottlenecks' in the system with regard to gas flow. An engine is just an air pump, really...so sticking a restrictor in either the pipe in, or the pipe out (and I include the cylinder head design in that) will reduce the amount of air which can be pumped. The situation is very different when a turbo is introducted (the same is true, but it's less important unless you're aiming to extract every last drop of power).

In terms of making power, the main problem areas on a 360 (especially a carb model) are the intake and exhaust. The cylinder head (especially on a 2.0) is actually very good for an 8v design.

Slap on the biggest twin-choke downdraft carb you can find, and you should see a nice gain in power. You may need to mess around with the manifold a bit to make the bigger carb fit, but fundamentally it's a bolt-on.

I might not bother with the K cam for rallying unless you're going to change the diff ratio - it doesn't come on full chat until about 4000rpm, and the B200K cars are geared for 95+ in 3rd. Trust me, it's not a good combination.

cheers

James

Post by **volvorsport** » 24 Jun 2007 04:55 pm

id look to spend some money an a decent extractor manifold 4-2-1 , or maybe 4-1 if space dictates .

it might be cheaper to fit a downdraft 45 on a B200k manifold , it has nice even length runners , but i think youll find twin SUs would give you a even better manifold still , in fact i see no reason why you couldnt get over 200 on that setup .

i dont see the K cam as 'that' special - get a decent one from sweden .

use the renix flywheel to setup the ignition with MS, you can tell the difference with just 2 or 3 degrees extra advance - you can certainly hear it on the dyno .

based on a second oversize rebored 2.3 with an enem cam , 46x38 valves ported ,mapped ignition , restrictive 45 dcoes , youll make over 200 , redline about 6800 , so thats a virtually std valvetrain also .

i reckon your into £1k of parts alone .

not saying it cant be done cheaper - if you intend to win tho .

the bottlenecks are inlet and exhaust manifold .

Post by **Jason B** » 24 Jun 2007 05:28 pm

Cheers for all the input guys!

I'm thinking that basically I am looking for a car that performs really well in the 20-80mph range as thats where it will mostly be driving. Ideally the cheaper the mods the better, but what specific parts do you reckon I should try and get hold of to put the car more towards the 150bhp mark

Post by **Chris_C** » 24 Jun 2007 05:51 pm

If you intend to win Nat B you wouldn't go in with a 300

Hmm, ok, not true... but, there are a lot easier ways of doing things, just not as much fun.

Jason, do you have a blue book? You can't drop on non factory ECU control of either spark or fuel from memory.

I wouldn't bother with a K cam for rallying tbh, you want a good pull across the range, as I'm sure you've round out, the ratios between 2 and 3rd gear will kill you, I'd go for a wider torque curve over slightly higher any day. I love Andy's car with a K, but the power really doesn't come on usefully until 2700 which for rally's would be horrible as you run out of chuff in less than 2k's time. You've just made the Volvo equiv of the 106 rallye however... just that has the gears in a useful matched place.

38 carb sounds like a plan, if you have access to a gas tester to get it set up. There is a carb ninga in Soton indeed I'm told, not used him, but the stories have been pasted down from generation to generation.

I'd start there, and see what happens. Haynes do a couple of nice books that tell you what to nick what carbs from, for Zenith and Solex info, the book is readily availible in Nick's house, for Weber's you'd have to purchase!

Post by **Jason B** » 24 Jun 2007 06:01 pm

carb to begin with it is then!

will have to scout around for some equivalent carbs etc and possibly look into manifolds, cue carb literature and maths time.

Post by **pettaw** » 24 Jun 2007 06:50 pm

Yeah, don't go for a K-cam if you're not allowed to change the ignition timing, cos you'll need to run a fair bit more advance down low to counteract the cam coming on late. With well set up timing and fuelling the K-cam will come on fairly usefully at around 2200-2400 but you won't get the big peak until you get towards 3K. Without adjustable timing, you'll likely see not a lot until 4K and the idle will be as lumpy as anything.

Post by **Jason B** » 24 Jun 2007 07:41 pm

hmm, that sounds a lot like what the car feels like at the moment (however carb needs tweaking), but I've only driven it twice so cant pass judgement until I pick it up on tues.

on the look out for a decent down draft weber or equivalent, any suggestions (bearing in mind I am a student, lol)

as a side note, has anyone bought a set of these:

http://www.elkparts.com/volvo/product_i ... 5ab01344d0

if so what are they like and are they worth the money (hoses were the only mot advisory)

cheers

Post by **SteveP** » 24 Jun 2007 07:59 pm

I'd say they work out at pretty good Value, the rear hoses from Volvo for example are nearly £15 a side. The goodridge hose kit often comes up on ebay for about £45

Post by **Jason B** » 24 Jun 2007 08:08 pm

cheers nicely pointed out, found some on ebay for ~£50 inc delivery

Post by **Chris_C** » 24 Jun 2007 08:36 pm

Jason, other thing is too sweet talk someone on here to sell you a late GLT renix... that will sort the ignition timing for the cam you have.

Post by **Jason B** » 24 Jun 2007 08:48 pm

cool, will look into getting that, so is it definitely an A cam chris?