ABS, Stability control... Have you ever known it to help?

[CBA]

If like me you can cadence brake, limit brake and if need be do more braking than there is space (weave, increasing distance travelled), while gearing down and doing everything that is possible to help slow the car.... what is ABS there to do? Automatically releasing braking system...
I challenge anyone to stop with ABS in a shorter distance than I can pull up in with the fuse out, I'm sure a few cars do have good ABS systems, the old ford escort had some weird mechanical system, they could stop pretty bloody good on a set of doglegs.

And stability control... abruptly stabbing the brakes automatically when trying to enter the apex of a 50mph corner with full throttle is not something I consider to be an improvement, especially when it results in the car turning 5 times as much as you wanted and pointing directly off the road for a split second, needing a ton of opposite lock to stay on the road, I nearly got out and beat the car up, but it wasnt mine so i couldn't... that was a week before I got this volvo.


Either ~ I'm doing something wrong or these two systems are literally trying to kill me. I've got the 85' Volvo now, erm... it will go round a corner as fast as it will go... any faster and it will not, it has as much grip as it has got, when you run out you will start to slide, this is where natural selection comes in, #if you NEED these systems so you can safely control a car then you cannot safely control a car, you shouldn't be allowed on the road, I'm very serious about this, a complete lack of understanding of physics travelling at 70Mph is not what I want in the next lane... driving test should be 100 times harder.
and involve AUTOTEST type learning.


Ahhhhh that's better.

Any thoughts on this?

[Chris_C]

As an enthusiast, you are expecting others to actually give a toss I had a go in a car with ABS for the first time when I did a a skid pan course, the instructor pulled out the fuse to proof how "bad" things were without ABS and we stopped with no stress, no squirming etc. Put the fuse back in, and it took another 20yrds.

He then made me drive and hold the pedal down to show me what'd happen; "But we'll hit the cone" says I.... seemingly that was the point.

Thing is how many people in the general population actually enjoy driving anymore? To try and improve your driving skill by taking advanced courses or doing autotests/nav rallys is a very very rare thing in the grand scheme of things. ABS was never designed for us, it was designed for someone who wants to put on their makeup/read the paper on the way to work (I've seen both this week) Traction control I can understand in a stupidly powerful car, having a rain mode where you arn't scared the car is going to bite you means you arn't constantly on edge to stay on top of it. But on a fiesta?

[SteveP]

I agree with Chris.. for the average Joe Bloggs who wont know what to do when a car gets into a slide/locks up under braking I'm sure it can only be a good thing. Traction Control is a bit pointless, my S70 has it and it only has 170bhp FFS.. thankfully it's not very intrusive! I've certainly never experienced anything out of the ordinary when it comes to computer controlled intervention. That's not to say I don't mind it! ABS in the snow is very annoying!

[Speedy88]

Yeah the smart cars at work have traction control. A smart car! Luckily the Romanians who work with me love sliding so they've taken the fuses out I used to believe that ABS was good in places with no grip however it really does detach the driver from reality.

[griffo20022]

One of MANY reasons why I prefer old cars.

By all means I'm not going to call myself an amazing driver or anything but when I jump into a car, I want to drive it. The likes of ABS etc. are a hinderance and don't give you any room for learning how to drive as it tries to do everything for you (most of the time ending up worse off than if you try lol)

It's funny when you get people in their cars with ABS, TC, ESP and whatever other b*llocks they have thinking there amazing and brilliant drivers.....Yer now go try driving an old car with no aids in the same manner and see how you get on lol....

The thought of just knowing theres nothing between my steering wheel and the wheels, nothing between the accelerator and the diff and nothing between the brake pedal and the brakes which is going to interfere with what i'm doing that makes driving all the more exciting! It's not JUST turn wheel, brake, accelerate

Obviously for people who want a car just to transport them from A-B it's fine but meh!

[SteveP]

It does definitely make driving more involving, one of the reasons why getting in and driving a 300 is still fun!

[jtbo]

Some of our roads still have ice cover over them, in here ABS is actually quite handy, however it does make one to loose touch on how to brake properly, I just need to push pedal in my french crap and thing rattles brakes, as I have studless winter tyres sometimes there are ice that is very slippery, but with ABS it is no problem at all, I can have lot more braking than without it as every wheel is braking idividually to it's limit, also it is possible to turn slightly during braking.

However some ABS systems are really bad and make car very much challenging to slow down, those I don't like at all.

ESP is then one thing still under development, there are still systems that do far worse job than even an average driver, also even good system makes it possible to crash lot harder, especially when these modern cars don't tell driver how slippery road really is.

Also problem is different conditions, on icy road with steep hills that have tight corners at middle of hill, those systems can be very dangerous, but then again it is possible to make such systems so good that even best driver on track he knows well is not able to beat times which such system let almost anyone to drive, however these systems are not what we find from our average sedans.

Generally I do dislike from such systems, I do prefer that driver should know how to drive properly without them and cars should be such that they warn driver when approaching speeds where average driving skills starts to be too little, but as today we have all kind of emotion only persons driving cars where you feel like sitting on home couch at any speed and conditions, maybe it is better that there is at least those systems keeping them crashing into our beloved 340's & 360's ?

Driver standard is very low these days, there are such persons behind wheel that would even manage to get older cars move, yet to understand even basics of mass and energy, they are just passengers at driver's seat, but some are even worse from that, they miss completely ability of use common sense and instead fly in their emotions causing them to do some pretty insane moves on road.

Then only speeding is told to be dangerous and any car without zillion safetyletters are declared dangerous even very few ever even dare to do such speeds that you would need any safety feature as such 'dangerous' cars are so scary at any silly speeds, bit silly world, imo.

I too prefer driving without any of those computer helps, then I feel that I can actually make car do what I want and with these older cars even I know when it is best to slow down.

[sven360]

ABS is a big help orf roadin.

Used it a lot in the snow just gone-very helpful.

But I'm not a sportz driver so what would I know?

[jtbo]

With ABS it is also quite easy to put it sideways at intersections, just keep throttle floored and control wheelspin with brake, turns on a dime at least on snow and ice

At higher speeds it also helps damn thing to turn, FWD craps seem to have slight problems with turning I have found out, they tend to go straight especially when it is really slippery, don't know how some are able to drive those without using left foot braking

[CBA]

I do not disagree with anyone - There are a lot of problems with how different manufacturers set up their systems, some give more steering during emergency braking at the expense of braking (NO NO NO!!) and other such compromises.
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This is frightening for me -->

When activated, some earlier ABS systems caused the brake pedal to pulse noticeably. As most drivers rarely or never brake hard enough to cause brake lock-up, and a significant number rarely bother to read the car's manual,[citation needed] this may not be discovered until an emergency. When drivers do encounter an emergency that causes them to brake hard, and thus encounter this pulsing for the first time, many are believed to reduce pedal pressure ED(I've done that...), and thus lengthen braking distances, contributing to a higher level of accidents than the superior emergency stopping capabilities of ABS would otherwise promise. Some manufacturers have therefore implemented a brake assist system that determines that the driver is attempting a "panic stop" and the system automatically increases braking force where not enough pressure is applied...

I could see that going very very wrong.

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Too many bad drivers out there - I'm reduced to despondency sometimes, really .

One pulled up in a micra at the lights next to me... strange I thought, this is a one lane road... I was going to knock on her window (six inches to my right) and tell her...

Another was angry at a cyclist for using the safety zones at the lights (the green box) and 3 times drove into it alongside him in indignant protest...

[jtbo]

I have had this spring two cases where I had to make full braking to avoid hit, once some idiot drove to main road from side road (with that triangle thing at side of road) without looking or slowing down and I was pretty darn close, so jumped on brakes and as I do have ABS in that french crap I just kept pedal down, so brakes make quite loud noise, pedal seriously kicks back and what is craziest thing of all during every kick brake pedal goes closer to floor, so at the end I had brake pedal against floor, but it did brake as badly as it did at beginning.

Other one was some woman at her MPV that was turning right from traffic lights, she had green arrow and she jumps on brakes when she sees kid running more than 20 meters away, damn that move got me bad, would never ever have guessed someone do such irrational move. At wet tarmac ABS took certainly some time to make car stop, was doing no more than 20kph, but stopping took well good 6-7 meters, oh yes, in that stupid french crap ABS never shuts off, it is active even at walking speed, which also I find is pretty stupid, but more stupid are those drivers not using their brains.

We have law here to stop at front of pedestrian crossing if pedestrian is attempting to walk over the road, then there is other law, if car is stopped at front of pedestrian crossing not in any case it is allowed to drive past other car without stopping. As traffic lights are quite rare here, it is quite common that one have to stop to let pedestrian pass and as often there are some stupid driver that zooms past without even slowing down.
Just recently there was some elder killed because of some of those idiots.

I'm pretty sure you have similar stupid drivers, I don't know if that safety feature mayhem over cars have them to act like they would be invincible and don't need to pay attention to road anymore, but it is what I strongly would like to think, when you drive older car at least you know that when you hit something it will hurt a lot so one have to keep eye for possible threats like ladies at their Micras or MPV, which are very dangerous as there is no way to predict their next move