Brake Upgrades

[classicswede]

I'm looking at putting together a bolt up front brake upgrade kit for the 300 series.
The kit will comprise everything needed including vented disc, caliper and mounting hardware.

Now the question is what diameter wheel would you want to run with? The easy answer would be to make the kit work with 13" and then it could be used by everyone. The downside with doing that is the size of the disk will be limited, making the kit for 15 inch wheels would allow us to go bigger.

I know most of the drifters are running on 13" rims and from that point a kit that will fit with 13's would make sense.The question is how many drift cars would actualy want vented discs?

Is it worth making the comprimise or should the kit be for 15" rims and if those running 13's want a brake upgrade they will just have to change to bigger wheels.

Thoughts everyone

[mac]

Being realistic, the standard brakes, when in perfect order are more than adequate so unless you intend to run " serious" power upgrades a " big brake" conversion is probably not necessary. If you are going the power route then you are unlikely to be sticking with 13" wheels anyway (you would look to 14" x 15" with low profiles). I'm not sure you'll find much of a market for a kit based around std. wheels.

My suggestion, Dai, would be to not worry about 13"s but to go for a "proper" conversion. Chances are anybody investing in such a conversion would almost certainly looking to bigger wheels anyway. If you base your kit on std wheel size you'll be forever limited by the disc/caliper you can fit in.

I trust you"ll look to correct the inadequate, std. wheel bearings?

Mac.

[Logan360]

I also think another option would be a rear disc kit. everyone says the drum's are big enough etc but a lot of people like allround discs.

[2 Fast 4 U]

Then I'm going to have a problem, my summer rims are 14" and my winter ones are 13"

[Chris_C]

I've been thinking about this today, depends what price point you are looking at I guess.

Beast's setup was about as simple as you'd get on the front of a 300 and let you run standard disks. It just added vents to standard calipers. It really depends where you are intending to go with it (price point wise), I'm not sure what options there are otherwise, re manufacture the hub so you get bigger bearings and correct disk fitment without drilling it (which still scares me). But, would you find a taper roller bearing with the correct ID for the current stub axle.

I won't go back to a 15" wheel. Yes, the car sticks to the road with them, but it lost the balance that I fell it love with the car for. So I've put in a 14" vote but you know how much I'll be pestering you for specs dude

[classicswede]

I am looking at and considering a few differnt options on how the full package will be put together.

The wheel bearing is a consideration, I have a suspision that the problem with the bearing is more down to overheating rather then being undersize. Changing the hub and using some bigger bearings is and has been something I have already started looking into.

The Kit needs to be fully bolt on or it not worth producing in numbers.

Price wise I recon that the full package must be sub £500, idealy a fair bit less. A £1000+ willwood setup is just pointless and if you were willing to spend that much you would send out on a 1 off custom job.


Disc and pad wise I should be working with Mintex on it as they have a lot of good reports and I have been happy with parts I have had from them in the past. Provided they can supply what is needed I see no reason to use anyone else.

I might consider producing two options 1 that will take 13" rims and another kit for 15" wheel only. looking at the votes so far there is a demand for a kit that will fit 13" and 14" wheels.

[Attack2001]

When i was running 13's the standard brakes were more than adequate to lock up 195's. My opinion is an brake upgrade is only good if you have the rubber to slow the car down, so bigger, wider 15inch rubber will be able to slow the car down faster than the dinky little 13's. So the bigger brakes will have more control over the bigger wheels.

Anyway, the only people on 13's are drifters, and they're not exactly hammering the brakes are they Proper cars need proper brakes, and proper cars get round a track as fast as they can, not as best looking as they can

Thomas...............

[classicswede]

The standard brakes are very good and have pleanty of stopping power even, the problem is with heat disapation with prolonged use.

You are right that it is race cars that do need the upgrades and they are more likely to be running on bigger wheels. I'll be looking at some combinations and will see what weels they will work with.

[Attack2001]

At the moment i think the upgrade for 13inch wheels is the 240 4 pot caliper conversion using capri disks isnt it?

[classicswede]

240 caliper will not fit very easy as neither caliper or strut are threaded.Alsothe two caliper has twin pipe feed and 3 series only one.

[Chris_C]

Capri disk works with the standard caliper after it's been treated to some love

[jon-ovlov]

Anyway, the only people on 13's are drifters, and they're not exactly hammering the brakes are they Proper cars need proper brakes, and proper cars get round a track as fast as they can, not as best looking as they can

Thomas...............

Wah wah blah blah namby pamby "drifting isnt a motorsport" bollocks. We do it for fun not to look good. A good track car can also make a good drift car and vice versa.

I do agree with the drifters dont need awesome brakes though, as too right, theyre not used aggressively like track cars, though they might be used for both drift and track. Fair point bout the rubber too, i can easily lock the fronts with 13" 175s, so bigger power wont mean much unless you have the required grip, so heat dissapation is key. I voted 13s as thats what i run and wont be going bigger.

[Chris_C]

Out of all the 300 rally cars I've known about, I think I can say I was the only one running 15's... which I no longer do.

Heat dissipation is the key for me, rather than increased power. I'd be very much more worried about locking up the fronts earlier or even just transferring more weight to the front with more stopping power, net effect being the rears do less as you have less weight on them or having to cadence.

Same power with more cooling however.

[Ride_on]

14" was the standard sport profile for GLTs, but I am not a fan of major brake redesign. The problem is obviously cooling.

Stage 0, Fresh fluid, alloy wheels, braided hoses (heat removal) and maybe a fluid cooling loop using the bleed hole. The wet boiling point (3% moisture) is usually >120C less than the dry boiling point of fresh fluid. 120C more means the brakes will lose heat alot faster.

Don't forget the disadvantage of increased unsprung weight with bigger disks.

[Attack2001]

Anyway, the only people on 13's are drifters, and they're not exactly hammering the brakes are they Proper cars need proper brakes, and proper cars get round a track as fast as they can, not as best looking as they can

Thomas...............

Wah wah blah blah namby pamby "drifting isnt a motorsport" bollocks. We do it for fun not to look good. A good track car can also make a good drift car and vice versa.

I do agree with the drifters dont need awesome brakes though, as too right, theyre not used aggressively like track cars, though they might be used for both drift and track. Fair point bout the rubber too, i can easily lock the fronts with 13" 175s, so bigger power wont mean much unless you have the required grip, so heat dissapation is key. I voted 13s as thats what i run and wont be going bigger.

Haha i said nothing of the sort, however i do believe it takes a good deal more skill to drive the car fast than it does for drifting, however drifting does have its uses for those "oh shit!" moments when the back end goes haha

Thomas......................