mmm donuts

[Speedy88]

I'm looking here for a bit of a driving lesson. Now, in a 300 it's piss easy to get the rear out in the wet. Last night I took the tardis up to the new forest in search of some late night gravel fun but I couldn't seem to get the back out much (it was dry). I can only put this down to my non-welded diff because there would be lots of skidding but not much tail flick. Bearing in mind I was on gravel, I expected to get lots of slide. Now the only difference between that and wet tarmac as far as I can see is the speed and gear. Obviously on a small gravel area I'm not getting out of first gear really, so is there a "special way" of getting the tail out when not going so fast? I don't think power was a problem, rolling brake stands worked great Also the suspension bounced a lot while I was going round, will this hamper me quite alot?

Not that I condone any driving of this sort

[OapEM]

Lock is the key IMO. Don't let it straighten up too much.

[jtbo]

Bodyroll causes one rear to lighten/lift up and that is why only one wheel is spinning, reducing bodyroll helps of course to that a bit.

You should get enough space to get into 2nd gear really, you can make turn quick flick on handbrake, floor it and drop the clutch thing if really desperate, but you really can't do donuts with open diff, at best it will be quite pathetic as one wheel is very rarely starting to spin.

Of course when you try and beat it enough you will get instant locked diff when diff fails, it is prone to that because of such usage, so welded is really needed for these cars or then nice locker unit from 240 or Jeep Dana diff section, however it is lot of work and quite fair amount of cash.

Try to find some fat guy to sit behind you at rear seat and then make right turn (I assume you sit on right side of car too), it should help, in theory, it is far from sensible, but then again, who can say that he is sensible person on this board?

[Sliderman]

it's all about momentum with an open diff....

no amount of mashing the throttle while driving around in circles will work, you'll just spin up the inside wheel. to step out the back end with an open diff you need to enter the corner faster than you would need to with a locker/welder. usually on low traction surfaces like you describe, lifting off on turn in, then immediatley giving it a quick jolt either with the throttle or clutch to break traction will get it sliding. the rest is down to wheel skill and throttle 'feel', keeping the back sliding without simply mashing the foot and spinning up the inside wheel. momentum, rather than being able to 'push' the rear like you could with a locked diff, is the key.

you won't however manage to do circley skids with an open diff. you will need a locker or welder to propel the car forwards/sideways and keep the momentum going.

only half a donut for you my friend.

have fun!

[nomead]

I know jtbo has had cold weather for a long while now, but today morning was the first one with black ice on the roads here in Turku (southwestern Finland on the coast). Naturally I had to go out and take advantage of the slippery weather in both 300's, just to check whether there's any difference between:

- a 360GLT with 175-wide summer tyres
- a 340DL CVT with 155-wide old winter tyres that are hardened from old age, and all studs ripped out

Despite having much more power in the 360 I seemed to have much more fun i.e. less grip with the 340. Probably due to the utterly crappy rubber, and the fact that when the rear end loses grip, it's much easier to keep it going just by using the gas pedal - no need to watch the rpm or change gears. Takes some getting used to, I guess...

And yes, in a suitable open place, like a parking lot, with ice it's actually possible to do donuts in the 340.

[volvosneverdie]

And yes, in a suitable open place, like a parking lot, with ice it's actually possible to do donuts in the 340.

CVT= Costantly Variating Traction

[jtbo]

As far as I understand CVT has actually characteristics of limited slip diff, but I don't understand much

It is really stupid weather here, I mean it is two weeks extremely cold, then when we get some snow temp shoots up and stays there so that snow melts and roads dry for sure, then again goes back to cold, so there is not much of slippery weather available, but it really does not matter when driving with frech crap.

[nomead]

As far as I understand CVT has actually characteristics of limited slip diff, but I don't understand much

Nah, the CVT used in the 340 (and 66 too, I think?) actually has a normal open diff. The limited-slip-alike characteristics were in the earlier transmissions without a diff - the belt on each side only had a connection to the rear wheel on that side. And the wheel speed variation came from the transmission actually giving a different gear ratio to each side.

[Con2K]

My 360 GLT Saloon caught me out in the dry once or twice and that currently has an open diff. Normally it happens when I'm not trying! Wrong way in the road at a junction in traffic is a bad and embarrassing place to be!! In the rain however, welded or not, the rear end is quitehappy to go its own way.

I await the next trampdrift day at Westonzoyland in Somerset so I can make a hash of it and push the car too far in the dry and see where I end up. That'll probs still be with an open diff so I will be trying harder no doubt, but I do have a welded one to go in when I can afford to take the volvo off daily drive duty for afew days.

[volvosneverdie]

My 360 GLT Saloon caught me out in the dry once or twice and that currently has an open diff. Normally it happens when I'm not trying! Wrong way in the road at a junction in traffic is a bad and embarrassing place to be!! In the rain however, welded or not, the rear end is quitehappy to go its own way.

I await the next trampdrift day at Westonzoyland in Somerset so I can make a hash of it and push the car too far in the dry and see where I end up. That'll probs still be with an open diff so I will be trying harder no doubt, but I do have a welded one to go in when I can afford to take the volvo off daily drive duty for afew days.

Glad youre havin fun man

[Con2K]

Glad youre havin fun man

Trying!!

[Speedy88]

I can *just* get the backend to step out in the dry if I accelerate away at 90 degrees from a junction with heavy throttle. Oh also today I jumped the tardis off a speed bump at 30mph unintentionally I love my car. I'm maybe a little bit harsh to it sometimes though

[Chris_C]

1.7's will happy powerslide in the 70's "I want to get round this corner" sense, rather than the "I want to driftorz this roundabout" sense.

You just need to work up to the level of grip of your tyres progressively.