B200E in 343 Vario

Post by **tttom** » 21 Apr 2008 06:58 am

Hello all,

I have an rusty 1984 360GLT (1954 ccm, 85KW) and would like to put the engine in an 1978 Vario. Does the engine fit, are there any changes to be made?
Has anyone already tried this?

Regards,
Tom

Post by **trabitom99** » 21 Apr 2008 01:15 pm

Grüß' Dich Tom!

I'm sure there will be someone along later who knows more about this, but it's not just a case of a simple engine swap. You'd need the engine mounts, clutch, bellhousing, torque tube, and lower final drive diff from the donor car.

Hmm, what else. Exhaust? The larger rear brake drums from the 360?

Quite a big project

Tom

Post by **filthyjohn** » 21 Apr 2008 05:21 pm

Use a bellhousing adaptor plate and make a 110hp vario?

Post by **Jason B** » 21 Apr 2008 05:22 pm

100mph in reverse

Post by **filthyjohn** » 21 Apr 2008 05:26 pm

Anyone seen the williams CVT F1 car before? 800hp or something. Not absolutely convinced that the 340 belts could take that much grunt though

Post by **trabitom99** » 21 Apr 2008 06:25 pm

Jason B wrote:100mph in reverse

Didn't they race DAF 66's in Holland? Backwards?

Tom

Post by **Tourinki** » 21 Apr 2008 06:39 pm

trabitom99 wrote:
Jason B wrote:100mph in reverse

Didn't they race DAF 66's in Holland? Backwards?

Tom

And few Finnish motorjournalists made world record in longest distance covered in reverse. I think that is was a Volvo 343 or something similar.

Post by **filthyjohn** » 21 Apr 2008 06:47 pm

I got my vario to just over 50 in reverse. Then I had to stop because it was bloody terrifying. Nearly wrapped it coming to a stop. It's like driving the world's fastest forklift.

Post by **pistonpen paultje** » 21 Apr 2008 07:45 pm

I drove my mk1 about 90 km/h in reverse. Then braked to 50 and turned the wheel slightly...Didn't know i could be a stuntdriver!

180 in a sec.

About the conversion:

You need to weld a couple of nuts in your chassis, to fit the enginemounts. Then the engine drops in easely(has your 360 a nearow radiator, like the 343?). Then the gearbox must be fitted. Fits underneath there like a glove. Only need to drill 2 holes near the gearstick to fit the gearlinkage.

Only thing i don't know is the tank. Should you fit the 360 tank over the gearbox (and does it fit easily) or use the 343 tank. For the rest: It's not that big of a deal.

Note: This is for a carbed engine. A injection engine needs electrical fiddling I think.

Post by **tttom** » 21 Apr 2008 09:08 pm

Thanks for replies,

vario would be best, but that depends on how much it costs to build the driveshaft. But it is definitly the goal, redblock+vario.
Does the B200E fit under a pre-80 bonnet? Was it the carb that made the 81 GLS bonnet nessesary?

How do I weld in the nuts? I have nearly no welding experience so i cannot Imagine how to weld inside the xxx dontknowtheword.

So the only problem seems to be the missing "nuts" in the chassis for engineholder and gearbox. Do the 81- vario 343 have these nuts?
The 360 has the nuts for variomatic.
I will use the 343 tank, the electrics is not so complex as far as I have seen.
Regards,
Tom

Post by **Jason B** » 21 Apr 2008 09:19 pm

I think if you are definitely considering mating a redblock to a cvt then you should start saving the rubber bands up now.

Its just welding on the correct extra nuts that the 360 has but the 343 doesn't, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find someone who'd do it for you.

Post by **petefarrell360** » 22 Apr 2008 12:21 am

I have had thoughts about this and have discussed this with a couple of people. I think, given the correct maintenance and care the belts would be ok, maybe a bit of slippage on hard lauches, the biggest problem is the range of gearing, no matter what engine you've got, the CVT system means it will rev it's nuts off at speed! It needs an overdrive system or taller gearing. Not impossible, but it needs some thinking.

The B200 won't be a direct swap for a 1.4 lump, as you'll need to fabricate a prop or torque tube of some sort and as if you go with the B220E injection, the fuel lines will need upgrading and an electric fuel pump installing, not to mention the wiring. So, personally, if you're ging to that effort, get the bellhousing for a redblock, get a prop made up, and add a 2.3. Then take it easy and see what it can handle. I know Frits has got through a few CVT units, but he was using them for drifting, so they can take a fair bit of abuse. I think, as with anything, a bit of care and luck and it'll make a cool project!

Pete

Post by **classicswede** » 22 Apr 2008 01:23 pm

I have thought of doing this kind of conversion but into a 66

From many points of veiw if there is any way of adapting it using the 340 bellhousing mated to the redblock would be the way to go.

The problem of the 360 bellhousing is that its used with a torque tube rather than a prop. Either way I'm sure its going to be possible to make it work.

Post by **filthyjohn** » 22 Apr 2008 05:16 pm

^^^ Seconded. Using an adaptor plate with the 340 bellhousing would be less hassle. When Frits was drifting the vario, wasn't it just diffs that kept breaking? AFAIK, no snapped belts were mentioned. Pete's right about the gearing, the only thing I don't like about mine is the high revs once you're up to speed.

Post by **petefarrell360** » 23 Apr 2008 02:55 am

filthyjohn wrote:^^^ Seconded. Using an adaptor plate with the 340 bellhousing would be less hassle. When Frits was drifting the vario, wasn't it just diffs that kept breaking? AFAIK, no snapped belts were mentioned. Pete's right about the gearing, the only thing I don't like about mine is the high revs once you're up to speed.

Exactly, I've yet to see a snapped drive belt that isn't related to age, wear and being in poor condition, but of course I'm willing to be proved wrong! I have heard unconfirmed rumours that drive belts from a certain combine harvester or farm machinery will fit, and I'd imagine they'd be just as strong if not stronger should the problem of strength exist.

I seem to remember Frits got very good at swapping the entire CVT unit, I too think it was the diff that couldn't handle the abuse.

The CVT is limited in the current setup by the gearing, as the high revs mean that the top speed will always be limited by that, no matter how big or powerful the engine, once the maximum gearing has been achieved by the pulleys, your engine speed is the limiting factor. A 1.4 gets off the mark fairly well, and as there are no gear changes the smooth acceleration makes it brisk up to 30 mph or so. Like John, the high revs at normal speeds are odd and in a way a bit annoying, that is what makes them thirsty and you almost feel sorry for that little 1.4 lump revving away, when it could quite happily achieve the same speed at a lot lower revs if the gearing allowed!

Mac had the know how when I spoke to him at Gaydon, but I've used my brain far too much since then and the info has left the area! It either needs some different drums/pulleys fabricating, a different final drive ratio, or the ability to change up like an overdrive function, however that may ruin the whole CVT concept and it's quirky charms. The thing I like about it is that it's always ready to go when you apply the power, like when turning across junctions, as you slow the engine speed and travelling speed change in a similar manner, so it's ready to go when you apply the throttle again and unlike a conventional auto doesn't need to change down or fail about finding the right gear, or try and pull in a gear that is really too high to make quick progress!

Pete